74. Your Body, Your Best Friend / Erica Mather
LISTEN ON:
APPLE PODCAST | SPOTIFY | STITCHER | AMAZON
Erica Mather is a lifelong teacher who has struggled with emotional overeating, compulsive overexercising, and body dysmorphic disorder. As an embodiment educator, she guides people to feel better in, and about, their bodies. Mather is a recognized body image expert, a Forrest Yoga lineage-holder, and was also named one of the next generation’s important yoga teachers by Yoga Journal. Sign-up for our newsletter to be with our community! ~ katiekaygraham.com/newsletter
GUEST CONTACT
Website: www.ericamather.com
Email or DM Erica for info on all her transformational programs!
IG: @erica_mather
FB: @erica.mather
Twitter: erica_mather
SoundCloud: @erica-mather
Erica Mather 0:00
What I've learned through forest yoga is that healing can look a lot of different ways. And this is again about you. being empowered to have your own relationship with your body, and to decide for yourself what healing looks like now today
Katie Kay Graham 0:34
Hey, you guys, and welcome back to another episode of body of breaking free. I am your host Katie Kay. And today we have Erica Mathis on the podcast. She is an embodiment educator, she guides people to feel better in and about their bodies. So excited to share this episode. However first, before we dive in, I just want to remind you, if you have not signed up for the newsletter yet, the link is in the show notes, I will be sending out important information workshops or treats, upcoming stuff that's going to be juicy and yummy and exciting. And you'll get all the info on the newsletter. That's our little hub. So that is Katie Kay graham.com forward slash newsletter, the link will be in the show notes. And also, if you enjoy this episode, please share it with somebody that you love, share it with a friend, send them a little note or screenshot, I think that that is the best way to uplift all of us. And Erica is definitely she is incredible in the amount of wisdom that she has. You'll hear it on this episode today. And if we can share just a little bit of her wisdom and insight. I think it's just so powerful, so empowering, and also uplifting the podcast and supporting us and that way is perfect. If you can share with somebody you love, then I am just gonna be a happy clam. So do that, if that feels resonant at the end of the episode. And yeah, you guys, let's get into Erica matters. She is a lifelong teacher who has struggled with emotional overeating, compulsive over exercising and body dysmorphic disorder. She is a recognized body image expert, a forrest yoga lineage holder and also named one of the next generations important yoga teachers by Yoga Journal. She is the author of the book, your body, your best friend, and the confidence crushing pursuit of unrealistic beauty standards and embrace your true power. Oh my gosh, just in that title. I love, love, love it. And we're gonna get into all of that information into Forrest yoga into her book into body image. And I was really blown away by how expansive, she could hold space for all of our own journeys, being so inclusive, and at the same time giving us kind of this practical guide to find more self love in our body. And she illustrates that in her book, and I promise you by the end of this episode, you're gonna be like, Okay, where can I buy that book, because there's just so much insight and, and support really just a ton of support that she provides us. And you can tell that she is so integrated in our own personal development that I reflect so powerfully in her book. So I definitely want to invite you to check it out. But we'll get into all of it today. And yeah, we just we dive into like all the messiness of body image and feeling comfortable in our body. And we also hit on intuitive eating and integrating that into the conversation and in some spots, kind of shining a new light on intuitive eating. I thought that was really cool. Some things that we dug into that I had learned in our conversation. So without further ado, you guys just enjoy the episode. Sit back and take a listen. Erica, thank you so much for being on body breaking free podcast today.
Erica Mather 4:45
It is my pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me, Katie.
Katie Kay Graham 4:48
I am so excited to dive into your book and all of the work that you're doing to help people accept their themselves more of their body more Are and I'm just blown away by what you're doing. So I'm just like, so thrilled to get dive into this awesome conversation with you. So thank you. Yes, clap, clap, clap. We're here. We made it.
Erica Mather 5:15
Rama, us.
Katie Kay Graham 5:17
Yes. Bravo. I love it. So Eric, I, let's start with you your personal story, just so the audience can get to know you a little bit. What was that journey that led you into Forrest yoga, Buddhism, and then this book?
Erica Mather 5:35
Yeah, so I would say was confluence of two things. One is like being female. Having a female body, which growing up with a female body is kind of confusing, and, and that sort of that adolescent desire to be attractive and beautiful. And then kind of the way that that I think is still present, even when there is like a body acceptance, body positivity movement, I think it's really like pushing a boulder uphill a bit. So there was that. And then the thing that really brought me to this particular path, and the healing from all of that was weirdly adult onset migraine headaches. So I started having a chronic illness in my mid 20s. And I started doing yoga as a result, and I realized that I was very unfriendly towards my body. I was cruel to it, I overworked it, I starved it, I thought mean thoughts about it. And that was really the beginning of the path that has brought us all the way to this book called your body, your best friend, which is the complete antithesis of where I started on this journey, sick, weak, unhealthy, and cruel to myself. Hmm,
Katie Kay Graham 7:06
yeah, and I think a lot of us can relate to that. Just that constant struggle with not feeling good enough in our body. And that unrealistic image that we're all trying to look up to this ideal, that actually only fits the 1% of the 1%. Interesting enough, and so we're all trying to fit this mold that is not serving our health, not serving our mental, physical, or spiritual aspect. And it's fascinating, what you're talking about is pushing a boulder uphill, I still feel like that too. It's like this movement, we see this progressing with body positivity and intuitive eating and connecting to your body and, and understanding your uniqueness and your authentic power. But still, we are constantly bombarded every single day with these images. And if it's ingrained in our brain, that comparison, it's like this loop. And we consciously have to be aware of it in order to push that boulder uphill, and get through and really find our own unique power. And I just think that your book is one of the tools that we can really have at our disposal to use that because it is it's like a mindset change, you have to go through every day to really start to shift your brain pattern, create those new neural pathways. And one part I loved about your book is having actual practical tools at each chapter at the end of each chapter. And so it really is a guide, and you integrate all these beautiful philosophies of forests, yoga, and Buddhism, which I want to know like how you got into those kind of specific types of philosophies as well. But first, before we dive into that, tell us a little bit let's dive a little bit deeper into the struggle. So into I know you've dealt with Body Dysmorphic Disorder, emotional overeating, compulsive over exercising, what did that whole part of your life look like? And what was that like snap of? Okay, like things? Like I know your health, particularly like really snapped you out of it. But were there some other things that were cueing you into? needing to change?
Erica Mather 9:36
Yeah, so I was exercising like seven days a week and eating badly. is the best I can say I know that we live in a world now where there's no such thing as eating badly, which I actually think that's a little bit the pendulum has swung a little too far in that direction. Eating a nutritious food Dude, that makes you sick. I just don't know how we can position that as eating well. So anyway, I was and the body dysmorphic disorder is I would say subclinical, I didn't have like a diagnosis, but, but I think that a lot of us can relate to looking into the mirror and being like, that's me. Like, that's me. So, so anyway, the struggle was really like, daily self hatred, that was only soothed by going to the gym. I don't know if anybody has that experience, where it's like this kind of anxiety. It's almost like an addiction, actually, it's like, there's this this sort of, like, everything's wrong in the world until I have done my two hours or two and a half hours at the gym, and then I can sort of calm down. So that was my life was like that sort of like constant anxiety that was only soothed by being at the gym. Meanwhile, starving myself or eating badly and looking in the mirror and being like, what is that thing in the mirror. And the thing that really actually the thing that started to snap me out of it even before the the migraine headaches coming along, was something very bizarre that happened to me, which is that I used to play the piano professionally. And so I want to I want to put the put the scene in play was I had been practicing the piano. And I remembered standing up from the piano and walking away from the piano and hearing a voice in my head. And this sounds really weird. But we're gonna roll with it. A voice in my head that said, the way you are eating is killing you. I was like, oh, so that was really I know, your face is like, that was really like a moment where I don't know if it was the creative act of having I'm spending all that time playing the piano sort of put me in the in like a flow state. I don't know, if you have a creative life. And so there is you're nodding like yes, yeah. So there is this like flow state that occurs when you're like, in sync with your body. And playing the piano actually, is something that puts you kind of in this flow state, it's a bimanual. There's some evidence on this, that doing things with both hands simultaneously, like puts your brain in a particular state. And so I had heard this, this voice and the way you're eating is killing you. I was like, oh, okay, thanks for the message. Now what you know, and I was a junk food vegetarian is basically the easiest way to describe it. I was like, as long as it's low fat, and doesn't involve animals. I guess I'm good, right? Because there was this whole low fat thing. But then it was like, high, everything was just palm full of sugar. So you're just like, it was making me crazy, you know, and bloated, and like bad skin and constipated. So yeah, this this moment where something told me the way that you're eating is killing you. It was like, not hard for me to like believe that. So that was really the thing that started to snap me out of it. And then came the migraines. And then came the yoga. And, and it was really kind of at yoga that I realized that I had been objectifying my body. And objectification basically means when you treat your body like it's an object, and I had been objectifying it for what it looked like for what it could do for how it would, how it was pleasing to other people. And at yoga, I realized I had internalized the objectification and now is self objectifying, which is slightly different when you internalize that message. And then you start to do it to yourself, when you objectify yourself. And so at yoga, I sort of started to snap out of it more and be more open to the the notion that a body has a different purpose, then what it can do for you or what it can do for other people.
Erica Mather 14:32
And the purpose of the body is what I'm actually exploring that right now. My book talks about it a little bit. My book talks about the body being like a vehicle for you to discover what your purpose is, what your true power is, or you can think your way to that but it's working around your body as an ally your body is is your body is part of the journey to finding out what your true power is. So that was a long answer. Did I answer your question?
Katie Kay Graham 15:02
Oh my gosh, Erica, there were so many things in there that I want to grasp on to the intuitive eating, and then the flow state. And then that last one is my favorite the purpose tapping into your higher calling. So let's first I want to make a note on the eating the, that pendulum that you talked about, I think we are swinging kind of far into you eat whatever you want, like all foods good, like, treat your body with respect by eating whatever you want. Essentially, what I am integrated in, in my work is intuitive eating. And I'm actually in a 12 week group session right now. So I got to see, I get to see different people and how they're dealing with intuitive eating. And we have talked about the pendulum, which was interesting that you mentioned that is, when we are on the far right or left, I guess we'll go right side, far right side of the pendulum and you're constricting and your diet mentality. And you're overanalyzing and you're like really boxed in by a set of rules. Well, it's only natural that the pendulum is gonna swing all the way to the other side. So when a lot of the time when people start their intuitive eating journey, they have to just let go and eat whatever they want, and eat the quote unquote, bad foods, the ice cream, the Oreos, that's, you know, my my quote, unquote, favorite foods that are bad or whatever. So when you swing, it's, it's a natural state, right. And so I'm hoping that culture is also doing this, where we're swinging to the side, but then eventually, the pendulum starts to rotate back and forth and rest in the balance in the center, where there are no labels, there's no good or bad, only according to your own intuitive body signals. So there are a set of principles, right, you can't just eat whatever you want. And the principles are tapping into your own hunger cues, your own fullness cues, understanding what foods fuel you What are nutritious. So there's a lot of different boundaries. And this is like also like yoga, right, we have a container of boundaries, but then there's freedom within the boundaries. And so it's a beautiful way to kind of look at this pendulum swing. And I'm hoping that we're all kind of coming into this balanced state. So that's just kind of a viewpoint I have on that conversation. And then secondly, that whole flow state that you were talking about, I love that I love how you I can tell you've done some deep personal work of trying to understand your own personal development, and what was that voice that came into you at that moment. So relatable, because it is like a lot of the time our little intuitive voice is that whisper and we can't even wear like, like I can't even hear that, right? I don't even know what it's telling me. But playing the piano, or lots of different modalities, I think are so significant that we forget about that how important it is that whisper or sometimes it really actually talks to us when we're in that flow state. So breathwork meditation, and some of the things that you have dived into Erica, that for us yoga and Buddhism, these things tap us into, like, what we really need to listen to is our own authentic, intuitive voice. And the body is such a beautiful vehicle to that allows us to get into that place. So I wanted to highlight that there's so many modalities that I think we push aside because we're not losing calories, or, you know, whatever it is we are being really achieving something or getting to a successful place. But there's these modalities that have completely changed and altered the state of my life and my path and have really helped me step into my authentic power. So it's important to kind of know that there's all these things that can help that whisper become what helps you Erica's like actually talking to you and being like very clear. Like when I do breath work and I get done with breath work. It's very clear what I need to do what I need to alter and shift. Okay, and I'm talking but third thing I just love everything that you said. So I want to make sure I'm hitting all of this. Let's get into this whole purpose. higher calling. And in your book. There was a word that I loved. Is it scan Paula Am I saying that correct? SunCom colpa Beautiful. Okay, so is that what Have you kind of feel like is the overarching theme of your book as?
Katie Kay Graham 20:05
What are we? Are we? We're using the bottom body as a vehicle to what to arrive at our higher calling? Like, how do you maybe describe this for us?
Erica Mather 20:22
Yes, just Yes. So I do want to circle back and address and respond to your responses.
Unknown Speaker 20:32
So many things.
Erica Mather 20:33
I don't want to honor your, your flow here. So I'm going to answer your question, before I go back and hijack the conversation. Oh, I have come to understand that for many people, for most people, the notion of using your body as a tool to discover your true power, your higher calling is actually a very foreign concept, mostly because we don't have a relationship with our body to begin with. Right? How are you going to ally with something on for a project as a sacred as what is your higher calling? So first of all, I want to address I, I feel like for and I've been thinking about this a lot recently, so I'm glad we're talking about this. I've been thinking about what is what is how we talk about higher calling, or how we talk about true power these days. And I feel like sort of on on the back of a feminist movement. And on the back of a female empowerment movement, there really is this very strong idea. And a concept in the zeitgeist that women's lives are, are valuable, which they are, but also sacred and purposeful for things, perhaps besides having a family or, or, or taking care of people. But I also want to say that those things could be a woman's take recalling, like I remember, I remember an author, I can't remember who basically said, I want to have my own business so that I can have a family. And I thought that's so interesting. You want to have your own business, you can do what what women have been trying to sort of free themselves up from Forever, right? You just don't want to do it like under someone else's thumb. And I totally get that I was like, I want to be free to do this thing and the way that I want to do it. But I also think that there is sort of a, a, an idea that it needs to be flashy, that it needs to be big, that it needs to be bold, that it needs to be loud. And maybe that's because women have not been allowed to be that. But I also think that your true power could be something quite quiet, it could be something small, it could be something private, it doesn't have to be so forward facing. Right. So I feel like and maybe it's because these things have gone hand in hand with like building a business or having a podcast or writing a book, right? I want to send a message to your listeners, that your true power might be something very private, it might be just for you. And so but but this is part of the journey, it's not like that this true power journey is better if it manifests in a podcast or a book or a business or an epic lovest there are reclaiming the power of your sexuality, you know, whatever. Right is I want to I just want to be it might be that you disappear and are happy and quiet. So but so but I do think that this will be a personal journey of reclaiming an alliance with a female body. And I just want to acknowledge that female can be a charged word these days. So your body, your body, whether you're a man, a sis man, a sis woman, a male identifying human, a female, identifying human no matter where you position yourself in this gender universe, that it is a journey of you make reconciling with the harm and the abuse that has been perpetrated upon human bodies, not just female bodies, male bodies to human bodies, and that along the way of this reconciliation that you A come into an alliance with your own body and discover your purpose. Okay, let's talk about purpose. I think that there is a difference between dream and calling. Right, and you asked specifically about the word sankalpa. And I want to talk about that. I think that sometimes life has a plan for you, that is different than your plan for your life. And this can be caused conflict for people. sankalpa basically translates and I just want to say I, you know, I am a white woman from a Western culture, I am not a Sanskrit,
Erica Mather 25:43
you know, scholar, but I have been working with these practices myself for 20 years. So, I'm speaking from my hope, what we can embrace as real lived experience, regardless of whether I was born into the tradition or learned about it from a book and some other teachers. And so sankalpa translates basically to a vow that you have taken to serve your heart's desire.
Erica Mather 26:20
And your heart's desire isn't just the whim of today or tomorrow, it is a constant exploration of what is my heart's desire and heart's desire, basically, meaning like, my connection with the beyond, as it is manifest through this body, that is part animal and part spirits. You know, we have a human animal and we have a human spirits, and how do these things play together. And sankalpa, as I talked about a little bit in the book can be like a daily exploration, it can be a moment in your life exploration that can be like, what is the grand arc? What is the great tapestry of your life. And it is a belief that our lives are purposeful, that they're not happenstance that we're here for some sort of meaning making. And the meaning making may just be that you find your own joy and you pursue your life. Enjoy, that you shuffle off the burden of suffering as best you can. And the burden of suffering comes with the body, our bodies hurt. They get ill they grow old, you know, these burdens come together. And so you won't be able to shuffle it off for real but that you, you pledged to seek pleasure and joy and purpose. And that that is kind of like your own unique journey. How do you find joy? How do you make meaning? Some traditions taught that we needed to, we needed to turn away from the body completely and only turn towards spirit in order to really accomplish this. And I think that this is part of what is unique about what I'm doing is that actually it says no, your body is actually a source of tremendous wisdom, your body remembers your first ancestor, your body has a longer memory than you do consciously. And this is tremendous archived wisdom that we can have access to, in a positive way, not just in a stress and trauma way, which is usually what's happening to us. We're usually like, bombarded with our body saying stop, ouch. Don't do that. You know? So what if we what if we actually access the wisdom of our bodies and our ancestors And our DNA in a way that is positive instead of in a way that is fearful? And Ouchy? You know, and so you it sounds like you do this a little bit through your breath practice. Yeah. And there are many ways to do this. I feel like breath and yoga are specifically sort of like ritualized for this purpose. Whereas like, like going for a walk or running on a treadmill could sort of bleed into like, exercise, you might smuggle in your old diet habits, your old exercise habits into a place that specifically could be pleasurable. I was talking with a client last week about how her mom was like, You should go to the gym and I was like, well, for for your mom, the gym is a place of joy. Because she goes to the pool and she swims. Right? So she's found joy in that movement, but for other people going to the gym can be a place of trauma. Right. So I think, you know, it's important that as we build a relationship with our bodies around movement and access Seeing our wisdom that we're very clear and careful that we inscribe a domain of joy and pleasure. And I've talked a lot.
Katie Kay Graham 30:11
No, I love everything that you said. And I want to make sure that you got the opportunity to hit on any points that you wanted to comment on on that my initial rant before, but I think you I think you got it in that conversation more actually,
Erica Mather 30:26
which might be useful, right? So now we're talking about intuitive eating. And Intuitive Eating is a funny thing, right? Because an it is sort of, in the words, intuitive eating are sort of baked in human spirit that's in the word intuitive, and human animal eating. And what your intuition tells you, it might be different than what your animal tells you. And I think part of the healing process of intuitive eating is learning to trust your intuition, which I think means that you have to learn to trust your animal, which we've been taught not to trust our animal. But I think that as we heal this relationship, we also need to honor biological realities. And some of the biological realities are, for instance, a sugar like fructose works around our satiety signals. You're nodding like you already know this. Yeah, you already know this. Yeah. So here continue. This is biology that most people are unaware of. Right. And so this is why eating can be very tricky, because we have all of these manufactured foods that are actually designed to hijack our satiety response. So to your listeners, fructose is bound in nature in fruit. And fruit naturally occurs at the time of the year, when we are going to go into winter. And in winter, there is less food historically. And so your body is trained to eat as much fruit as possible during this time, because soon there will be no food. Right? And so fructose occurs in manufactured foods, primarily, like as high fructose corn syrup, or a manufactured fructose. And so when you eat these foods, it functions in the same way that fruit does is you don't actually receive a satiety signal, which is why it's useful to start to read like food labels and know like, Oh, if I eat this, I will not know that I am full, because this food has been manufactured to work around my satiety signal, and, and just eat more of this food because that feeds capitalism. And, and actually being sick, which is it, which is an industry. So then this gets us to a very interesting question, Is there good food and bad food? And I think, yeah, there are some bad foods because they were manufactured to harm you. Sure, eat as much of it as you want, but know that that food is not for the good of all, and Harlington, that food was actually manufactured to keep you plugged into a capitalist machinery, which is built on industrialized food and people being sick. Sorry, that's the reality. And how you square this away with your lifetime of disordered eating, I think is a very personal journey. Yeah, but I think that how but at a certain point in this pendulum swinging, we have to acknowledge that biology is a reality. And human spirit is intuition. Human animal is a whole nother thing. Yeah, that is what I wanted to say about that.
Katie Kay Graham 34:13
I'm so glad you mentioned that. And as you were talking, a lot of things were coming to mind. The last point that you mentioned was, we're all on our own personal journey. And you just have to understand that and there's no kind of blueprint for it. If I looking back at my own personal journey with disordered eating and healing, I'd almost kind of put it in stages of the allowing and the curiosity of the quote unquote bad foods, junk food and understanding how it felt in my body and knowing that trust word which you use, which I thought was just dead on is trusting in My own signals. And I intuitively started to understand how these junk foods made me feel what they were doing to my satiety and my energy. And I think when you get to that level, you do start to make decisions based on your own your own body, right? I think one thing that's really hard as we make decisions based on these rules that we've heard, even, you know, really amazing nutrition advice. But then it's this whole detachment from our own sense of control, essentially. So we're wrapped up in this control cycle, but it's not, we don't feel any authority over it. Because it's somebody else telling us what to do. And there's this whole trauma I could go into of growing up, and parents telling me what to do, and other people tell him what to do what you should do. And then you get to an adult, and you have this whole internal dilemma of doing what's right. Listening to yourself doing what other people are telling you anyway, it's like it can become this whole thing. But I think that, at least for my own personal journey, if I put it into stages, that kind of would be a healing stage of the disordered eating. And then kind of the next stage would be, what exactly what you're talking about Eric has is listening to people and getting these concepts and understanding them more and being able to integrate them into my eating once I kind of had that foundation. So I don't know, I'm not sure. And I think it's different per person and their own healing journey. When you are talking now, I think that that might be your next book is our relationship with food because I can tell you have such a like, like your, the way that your brain works, the wisdom and then amount of capacity. I'm just so fascinated by it's so beautiful. So yeah, no, I think you you have many more books in your future if you want to write them. But let's let's get into the a little bit more of of the book that you did, right. And so I do want to ask you about forest yoga. And how did you what maybe first, what is Forest yoga? Because I'm not very familiar with it. And I'm sure there's many listeners that aren't as well. And then how did you? How did you start practicing and teaching it?
Erica Mather 37:45
Thank you so much for asking that. Yeah, most people don't know about forest yoga, and I just want to spell it for people. It's f o r r e s t, because sometimes people hear it and they're like, are you saying forced? Or like, What are you saying? It's like, No, there's no forcing in this yoga? Actually, that's very opposite what it's about. So I found forest Yoga very randomly after I started getting migraine headaches. I think a lot of people have this experience where there's a, you have a health issue, and someone says you should try yoga. And then, but then what yoga or, you know, and so I was actually having this conversation with someone over the weekend was back issues. And he said his GP recommended yoga and I was like, so don't just go to any yoga like that you have to know what to go to. This was a long time ago, I didn't really have a yoga concierge like myself. So I just went around and sampled different styles of yoga. And the one that really spoke to me, I think, because it had a particular language around breath, and the body and feeling the body. As opposed to thinking about the body, which is mostly what we do. We think about the body, we don't actually feel the body. A lot of times when we feel something we don't like it. So we try to move away from it. And some forest Yoga is a style of yoga created by my teacher whose name is Ana forest. And it is a an amalgam that she created because she saw that the styles of yoga that were available to her at the time, which were like a younger and Ashtanga were kind of authoritative. So what you were talking about a bit about being told what to do? Those two styles of practices are very much they tell you what to do. And I think that ANA wanted to create an invitation for practitioners to find out for themselves, what they feel, what they might feel, what's good for their body, what's not good for their body. The conundrum of this is if you're teaching yoga, you do need to tell people what to do. So but I think within the container of telling people what to do that Forrest yoga is an invitation for you to experience your own body and to feel the truth of your own body and what it feels right now. We, it's a slow practice. So there's time and space for that inquiry. It's a breath based practice, because breath is the avenue to feeling. So just think about this for a moment, thinking about feeling is not the same thing as feeling about feeling. Right, you just close your eyes to like, take that and you can, you can feel the difference, right. And mostly, what we do is we think about feeling, which is one of the reasons we never sort ourselves out. So forest yoga invites you to breathe as the avenue to feeling. And I have been practicing forest yoga for now. 20 years, I've been teaching since 2006, all in New York City. And I mostly now teach what I would call therapeutic yoga therapeutics, because I've found that mostly it's people who are injured, or ill, or suddenly noticing that they're getting older, and contending with their mortality. Those are actually the people who seem to be more interested in coming into a real relationship with their bodies that isn't objectifying. Because when you get sick, and an eating disorder can be the thing that is the sickness, right? When you get sick, and you realize something's wrong here, then you slow down and you make an an inquiry. It's not usually the people who are out running up mountains and running marathons, who are in deep inquiry with their bodies, right? They're in a different relationship. They're in a different phase of the relationship with their body. Like I have a student who came to me recently with a shoulder injury who was like, I never understood while that while those people were complaining about their shoulders, and now I get it. Right. So she's in a different phase of her relationship with her body, because she didn't listen to the warnings, she just kept doing the thing that she was doing, and now it's broken, right.
Erica Mather 42:34
So I teach what I would call therapeutic yoga. It is an adaptive forest yoga practice. If you go and Google on a forest, you'll find my teacher doing amazing things with her bodies, like very advanced yoga. And we also, you know, healing can look a lot of different ways. Actually, healing can look like running a marathon. Healing can look like getting a massage. So what I've learned through forest yoga is that healing can look a lot of different ways. And this is again about you. being empowered, to have your own relationship with your body, and to decide for yourself what healing looks like now and today. And back to our eating conversation for you. Healing today might like look like eating the entire bag of Oreos. That's what healing might look like for you today. Healing for you, in five years might look like reading the ingredients and realizing like, this is not serving me. Onward. You know, for some people healing today looks like getting out of bed. For some people healing today looks like training for a marathon. It's just You just never know. And this is one of the reasons I really try to not say much. I really try to not say much about what people are doing because it's just such a deeply internal process and like you said, you were um, I'm hesitating now because I just want to know is it Katie or Katie day?
Katie Kay Graham 44:27
Oh, it's Katie or Katie. Kay, either why?
Erica Mather 44:30
JDK. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Because I said, Katie at first and then you've hesitated and I was like, Oh, is it like, like my friend Mary. Katherine, she's not. She's Mary. Katherine.
Unknown Speaker 44:42
I'm pretty flexible.
Erica Mather 44:44
I just wanted to say like you were saying about your own journey, Katie Kay. Is that you know, if you had to say the stages were like this, and it's very hard to say for any other person what stage they are in. And also it's not linear. That's the weird thing is like one day, you might be like, I'm eating all the Oreos. And then a year later, like I'm eating none of the Oreos. And then five years later, you might be like, I'm eating all the Oreos, you just,
Unknown Speaker 45:14
it's not linear.
Erica Mather 45:15
So it's like very hard. It's very hard. But the thing that I think is really key to this. And I think is maybe the the thing that everybody is trying to angle for is self knowledge, and self empowerment, to make your own choices. And for some people, and back to, you know, how the pendulum is swung. For some people, the Empowered choice. I hesitate to say this, but for some people, they're empowered choice is to go on a diet. And it's only for them to say, if they're going on a diet is abuse and not healing, or if for them going on the diet is liberating. So I think that we exist, and I will props up anti diet, a mate, yes, yes, yes, let's swing the pendulum. But then for the people who are inside saying this is what is good for me. The only person who can really validate whether it's good for them is that very person and the thing that I say this is the one directive I give, is just go inside, rustled around through the container of your heart that has you know, what your mom told you and what society told you and what you want for yourself, like, rustle around in that container of hurt and trauma and just decide for yourself? Are you making this decision based on love? And only you can answer that question. Only you can answer that question. Nobody else can tell you what is the content of your own heart. And on the outside a diet can look like violence and abuse. The only person who knows is the person who's actually doing it. What do you think about that? Follow, unfollow, unfollow, unfollow, unfollow. She said it was okay to diet, unfollow, unfollow.
Katie Kay Graham 47:28
No, I think that was so needed. I needed to hear that. And I'm sure many listeners needed to hear that I just, you create a container that is so inclusive. And I'm so glad that you're here to give us permission that we're all on our own healing path. And we'll just right at the end there, what you're talking about love, and you're the only one that can truly know, what is what is healing for you? And maybe what is abusive for you. And yeah, I mean, it's, it's fascinating. And it actually is really simple when you just dial it down to just that. Yeah, I think maybe we make it more complicated than it needs to be. And, and I'm sure I've had many outward judgments on other people that are in a diet or, you know, restricting their food, or I'm sure, I mean, for sure, I'm judging other people. And I always have to remind myself, that's my, just my own reflection on what's going on within me. And it's not really up to me, the to judge anybody else, and their healing path is just so different than mine. And what's right for them might be 182, what's right for me? So, Eric, I think that what you're, what you just said was just a bubble of permission to just like, Okay, it's like, Look within yourself, and that's where you're gonna find your own
Erica Mather 49:15
body empowerment,
Katie Kay Graham 49:20
and your own choices. And I did I when I opened that PDF of your book, I felt that like, I was really when I opened that book, I was kind of thinking like, Oh, this is just gonna be like, a body positivity by the I mean, there's the judgment again, but luckily, I can just, I can just
Erica Mather 49:41
a lot of people saying just love yourself and your life, but wow.
Katie Kay Graham 49:46
Yeah, and I was just really, wow, I was really reading actually reading the book and really wanting to look into I mean, like disarming a happiness truce and the grass is never greener. earned all these like beautiful titles. And I can tell that you and this is hard, because with the podcast and me like trying to keep an expansive space for everybody's healing path, but you're also one person coming at it from your own experience. So there's biases there. It's hard to balance both. And also create a container that's going to be supportive for many different people and many different points in their journey. And I think that you just did such a great job in your book and, and quoting people like tech, not con, I just love that and so good. So I just want to let the listeners know like that. I mean, I just, I think it's really, really powerful. One question I have for you, Erica, about your book is, you were talking about that lady that she came to you with that shoulder injury, and you mentioned, you know, it had gotten to she hadn't listened to her internal cues, and it got worse and worse, and then you end up with an injury or chronic illness or, you know, like, whatever it is, or, or struggling and transition to, you know, an age or whatever it is, do you kind of feel like your book kind of helps guide you so that it's almost like a preventative therapy, so that you don't get to a place where you are like, in a in a dark place where you've like, hit up against a wall. And now your options are limited. I guess, did I phrase that right? Is that is the book kind of this way of, if you can connect to your body and move through all of these different, you know, the happiness and the grass is never greener, and all these different kinds of topics? Can you almost flow through life a little bit easier with potentially having a preventing a serious illness or something that could be major along the way?
Erica Mather 52:18
Great question. And no, sorry to tell you, No, you can, you can eat all the best foods, you can forgive yourself over and over again, you can clear every internal blockage, and you might still die young. So but what I can say is that I think that doing this work will prepare you to suffer less. Along the way. I see a lot of my people who I work with changing their minds about how they treat their bodies as they get older. And it does help them suffer less. I see some people who I got to like a little too late. You know, and I'm trying to change their mind and they don't. And they suffer a lot. They do they suffer a lot. And so you don't know what's gonna happen to you. You just don't know. But you do have a choice to make it a little easier. You know, as the saying says, challenges are inevitable suffering is optional, right? It's like you are going to get sick, you are going to get injured, you are going to get older, these are inevitabilities. It's common for you. Let's hope it's coming for you. Because Because Getting old is a privilege that not everybody has. And I say that my dad died when he was 56. So I saw someone who was robbed right of their life, like, you know, and it is a privilege. But so it's going to be hard. But could it be a little less hard? Could you laugh a little bit more? Could you have more perspective? Could you take it less personally? Do you see what I'm saying? Also, also, I think that when you suffer as these all of these things happen, the people around you suffer a little bit more. Right? So if we're better prepared, we also make the people around us suffer less, which may or may not motivate you at all. Sometimes I think people are people are motivated by other people's experiences of them. You know? So and I'm thinking about this, Katie, because actually last week Friday, I went to a memorial service for one of my colleagues in the yoga world and she died of a brain tumor at 64. You know, and everybody's Mara pulling like, you know, she ate well and did yoga, you know, she smoked cigarettes, you know, long time ago. But, you know, it's just like you just never know. But one thing I did hear them say was that she was courageous, and she was brave. And I do think that having a body, dealing with all of these eating issues dealing with all of the the external beauty issues dealing with getting older and sick, it does take courage, it does take a lot of courage to look straight at it. And to deal with it. There is a bravery involved in that. And I think that you know, what the book hopefully does is lightens your burden a little bit, lets you know that you don't need to worry about some of the things you've been worried about. It gives you an ally, if even it's my voice, if even just reading me write those words makes you feel better. I have some books that I read repeatedly, because the voice of the author just makes me feel better, like makes me feel a little more equipped to do today. Right? So even if the book makes you feel a little more equipped to contend with whatever, you're staring down with courage and bravery, then that's it. But I cannot guarantee you that you will do all this and you will not suffer. Wow. But then the choice is are you going to do it anyway, just because just because you know, it's the right thing to do. And I think a lot of times we make, hopefully, a lot of times we end up making decisions, to do something just because we know it's the right thing to do. Even if it doesn't guarantee us a particular outcome. The only outcome that you will be guaranteed from this particular process that's outlined in my book is the possibility of loving yourself. And I think that that's priceless, actually. Right? The only thing the only love that you might be guaranteed in our lifetime is loving yourself.
Erica Mather 57:13
You can't know for sure that anybody else is going to do it or that they're going to do it in a way that feels good to you. But as long as you go through your life, bearing the burden of being unhappy with yourself, some of these chapter titles that you mentioned, the happiness trap, you're unhappy with yourself. You know, the grass is greener, which is about envy in comparison and competition, you're bearing that burden yourself. Like the book does help to free you up from those things and put you on a path towards the only thing that I think you could be guaranteed in your lifetime, which is the love of yourself, which I think all of the Rumi, all of the Rumi poems that we love and all of the tick, not Han sands that we love, basically what they're talking about is that learning to love yourself is kind of like being in touch with divinity. It is unconditional love. Hopefully your parents give you unconditional love, but they're humans, so they're gonna mess it up. You know. So that is the only thing I could really guarantee you from the process of working with the book. Wow.
Katie Kay Graham 58:28
It's like music to the soul. I was just so I can feel it. Like I feel that in my chest. And that's when I know my heart is expanding. And it's really like sometimes when that happens, I'm listening. I was just like, no words left. I just think that that was amazing. And one thing I did I was notice that came up in my mind when you're talking is I heard one somebody say pain without purpose is suffering. Pain with purpose is powerful. And whether that quotes true or not, I think it does hold the significance and suffering can is optional. But pain isn't right pay we will experience pain in our life. What I have found in my own journey is having a purpose with my pain and creating a podcast and you know teaching yoga and doing things. I find that it is powerful in so many different ways and probably in the most way is of service and which deepens my connection to love within myself and with others which I find is the you know the meaning of life, the meaning of life. If His love and so that I mean, maybe there isn't an answer at the end of that sentence. probably leave it right there. That's it.
Erica Mather 1:00:11
That's all you need to know. Wow, there's a lot to know after that, because we have so many misconceptions about love and the paths to it and how we generate it and how we experience it and how people do or don't love us and what that means. But it kind of goes back to sort of, I think what I said is like, now I'm applying what I said to a different thing, which is your journey of discovering love is yours and yours alone. And nobody can. Nobody can say otherwise. You know, nobody can know what's happening to you. Nobody can know the content of your heart. It's very tricky, so Amen to your journey towards love.
Katie Kay Graham 1:00:54
Yes, and I and I think it all starts with loving yourself. That's and your book while you're saying is that it is priceless. So truly is the more that we can expand in and around love, I find that life itself opens up more and and we do start to feel that sense of empowerment and purpose and higher Colleen, like all these things, all these big things that sounds so big, but you know, it might just start with a little bit of love for yourself and and your body in such a beautiful gateway. The body is such a beautiful gateway, it teaches us so much it's can be the hardest teacher for sure. But it's a it's an opportunity, right each. Each struggle that we're faced with can be an opportunity if we allow it to be that. So yes, I love all I love this conversation. Erica, thank you so much for being here. I just want to ask you a few questions and the show. But I want you to know, how about hold up your book so that we can see it and I'll put that on Instagram? Yeah, your body, your best friend. Such a good conversation around this book. So thank you. And then I want to ask you what is your own daily wellness routine, I love to ask the guests at the end of the show so that we can gain some inspiration.
Erica Mather 1:02:27
Rest. Rest, I actually don't necessarily have a routine outside of rest. And I'm not being evasive. Routine routines can also be prescriptive. So the routine is checking in with myself. And trying to respond to what my body needs right now. Certainly, we have things we got to do like so even if in the middle of this podcast. I'm like, God, I need a nap. Not happening right now. Because we made this schedule. That's not the way I feel right now. But you know, but then afterwards, it's like this kind of like daily, my daily routine is a constant check in like, do I need food? Do I need hydration? Do I need to go for a walk? Do I need to call a friend? Do I need to take a nap? Do I need to read a book? Like it's this constant check in to keep in an equilibrium. And that daily routine is built off of having a relationship with the body. Right? Because otherwise, those questions are frustrating because you you don't actually you can't actually answer them. But if I were going to provide a prescriptive for listeners, I would say quiet time where you don't have to do anything. Quiet time you don't have to do anything, even if it's just for a half hour, or it's unscheduled. And maybe you you just you exist in a half hour of unscheduled time. Because we have made our bodies into human doings. Right? We're always got to be doing something. Right? And you need a minute to be a human being. You just need a minute where it's like, I don't owe anybody anything. I don't have to do anything. All I have to do right now is be and that can be very uncomfortable. Actually unstructured time I've noticed for folks. So that would be my prescriptive is give yourself enough a half hour sounds like a lot. Try 15 minutes. Maybe I've noticed that some people feel like the bathroom is a place where they are not on call for anything. So you might be like I'm gonna go sit in the bathroom for 15 minutes and just sit on the floor. Be like I'm sitting in the bathroom, maybe take a shower In the middle of the day, because when you're in the bathroom, nobody can talk to you, you know. Um, so that's it, I would say unstructured time. And then the other thing, like I said, is really just like, rest, rest, rest. In the space of rest, your body has a chance to talk to you. And it might just tell you, God, I am tired. And then you go, okay. And then this is another thing about intuitive eating, I want to say is there was a time in my life where every every uncomfortable feeling was, the answer was some food. Tired food, horny food, sad, food, frustrated food. You know. And I think that tired actually is kind of at the very cornerstone of all this. And if you just allow yourself to rest, you might be able to deal with sad, horny, frustrated on their own terms. But as long as you're tired, it's like you don't actually have the resources to figure it out. So do nothing. Rest. Oh, love it.
Katie Kay Graham 1:06:20
I love it. Thank you, Erica. And lastly, where's the best place that we can connect with you?
Erica Mather 1:06:29
I would say if you really want like me to bother you get on my mailing list. My website seems to be a constant barrage. It's like a hackers like playground right now. But, but just keep checking back or DM me through social media. And say, I want you to bother me with these messages. That's not going to happen happenstance because you scrolled through social media and the algorithm decided to show you me today. So just DM me or follow me on social media, Eric Mather, I'm on Facebook, I'm on Twitter, I'm on Instagram, those are the only three I'll deal with because I'm a Gen X er, you know. But then if you really want me to be in your ears, reach out to me say please put me on your mailing list. And then I will email you once a week with something about yoga, or mindfulness or just some musing I've had about the being alive or body image stuff. And you'll hear from me maybe once a week, but also you'll hear from me about my programs and my offerings that I run about five times a year called My adore your body programs.
Katie Kay Graham 1:07:47
Do you want to give us just a little clip into that program real quick?
Erica Mather 1:07:52
Yeah, sure. I have five programs that I run five for, for, for about five times a year. One of them is a body image meditation course. So it's a seven day challenge. It's coming up on November 12. The other one is called Envision, and it is running around the New Year, the door your body ENVISION program, which is how to use your body to discover your life's purpose. The other is my adore your body Foundations Program, which has in it I teach you about my five adoring core competencies, which are basic like practices and areas of assessment that I think you need to have some, some core competencies around and actually to in order to actually like, create a relationship with your body. And then the the other program is called, what is it called? It's called Success accelerator, the door, your body's success accelerator, and it deals with domains of life, where you want particular outcomes from your body, relationships, work, health, sexuality, spirituality, it's sort of like you want outcomes, and how are you getting the outcomes in those domains? And what is the relate? What does it have to do with the relationship to your body. And then I run like those programs, they can be group programs, I run them as VIPs. My book, of course, is a program actually, in and of itself, that if you want to do privately with me, I will take you through a whole year where we do the book, one on one. And we talk about where you are one on one, because as you and I have been discussing, Katie, it's like very personal. It's very personal. So those are the programs. Thank you for inviting me to talk about them.
Katie Kay Graham 1:09:50
Of course. Yeah. And I'll put all the information in the show notes. I love all of those that you mentioned. Like all of them. I was like, Oh yeah, I could use that. I could use that one. I think what you were talking about that personal journey, it's also earlier, what you're talking about was the nonlinear part of it, which is I find like having a guide through that can be so beneficial because one day you're doing this and then you completely Do not miss it. But then you come back to it, it's like you it's like so that's the hardest part I find with personal transformation is sometimes you can't see the growth. And if you have some person with you as a guy that can change everything. So I love that that you offer that. Okay, Erica, thank you so much. I'm gonna put all your contact information program in the show notes. Such a pleasure to have you. Thank you so much for being here today.
Erica Mather 1:10:47
Ed, it was my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me to your show. And thank you also for holding a space for these nuanced and complex conversations. And I can really hear from our conversation that we're like, kindred spirits
Katie Kay Graham 1:11:00
for us. I love ya. And thank you so much listeners. I know your time is precious. So thank you for showing up for yourself, your body, sending so much love, and I'll see you all next week. If you have made it to the end of this episode, and you want more, more wellness tools, practices and insights from this episode and others, make sure to sign up for our email list. This is where we connect and support our body breaking free community. So if you're ready for the next step, the link to sign up will be in the show notes at Katie Kay graham.com forward slash newsletter.
