28. Nutrition & Intuitive Eating / Becky Cannon
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Becky Cannon has a MS degree in Nutrition at the University of Utah, BS in Health Promotion and Education, and is currently a dietitian at Live-Well Center in Park City, Utah. Today's episode Katie Kay shares her own experience working with Becky Cannon through her own nutrition process and weight loss journey. Katie Kay shares how Becky helped her achieve her goal of weight loss, removed the shame around weight loss, what process she took with the mediteranian diet and shifting into intuitive eating. We talk about food freedom, control around food, emotional connection to food, macros, hunger and fullness cues, weight loss, intuitive eating, and so much more. This episode is jammed packed with personal experience and nutrition insights.
Katie Kay
Start for the listeners to get to know you and your background, can you give us a brief intro into your path and your education? And what led you here to live well, Center in Park City?
Becky
Yeah, for sure. So I'm a local well, not like local, local to Park City, but I'm from Utah. And I would say, I Well, I grew up in a household that had a medical background, my dad's a physician, so I was kind of in and out of clinics or hospitals visiting, or sometimes I would stay overnight with him when he was on call. And in one of those tiny physician rooms, but I just kind of felt like science and health was just more natural to me, I'm more I'm definitely have more of that brain versus like the creative thinker, the philosopher, but I knew that I wanted to be in a space where I was helping people, and that it was interesting to me. So nursing may have, like, seemed like a more obvious choice, but it definitely didn't speak to me. And when I was an undergrad, in at the University of Utah, I just took one of the general education classes, and one of them was nutrition. And I just, that's where it all started. I never found it boring. It was always my most interesting class. And I didn't even know what a dietitian was, when I was in college, I had no idea. Or when I was in high school, like, that's when I learned what it was all about. So I knew I wanted to use that area of education in my career. So I did, like community health, public health stuff for my undergrad, and then I went on to get my masters that they use. So I think that's really where my interest in nutrition came. And, and I just knew that would like be that common area where I could help people and use something that was really interesting to me. And as you know, nutrition is always changing. There's always new research, you know, it's something we have to do every day. So that's just really where it all started for me personally.
Katie Kay
Yeah, yeah. And so we're sitting and to give the audience a little visual. We're sitting in your office right now. And luckily in person and you're at the live Law Center and Park City. So what were How did you end up here? Oh, yeah, working at this office.
Becky
So I, I worked at Primary Children's when I was in my master's program, and I had a co worker who actually is from Park City, and they needed help up here at the hospital. And I think I won the jackpot. I literally, I did not do dietetics for the money, you know, I mean, I can support myself and contribute to my family. But I definitely do for the people. And I got connected by helping here because that coworker knew one of the dietitians here, and it turned into a full time job. And it really turned into like this job this me helping out here was in the space that I loved. I loved counseling, I love being a little bit in the clinical side, but I really love the counseling aspect of it. And I that was so I was attempt for a while. And then it turned into full time and eventually, you know, I'm it's I've been with a company for almost 10 years now. 10 years, 10 years this year, so I mean, I obviously love it, and it's just helped me stay in that space. Where I can help people and stay happy in my work too. I'm like the only millennial who stayed somewhere for more than 10 years, and like I have family members who think I put all my eggs in one basket, but I just love. The best part about it is that people so like, we obviously like had a connection the last couple years. And it's like when you come in for a visit like we are. It's like hanging out with a friend, right? Where, and then obviously, I'll have that part where I can help. But it's those relationships that are really helpful. And it's also really rewarding to see people reach their goals. And I've also worked with people for years to necessarily haven't like, it's kind of been the same more or less since I first met them. But it's, I don't think they're a failure. I don't think that about my patients, but they know they can come back and we have that relationship where like, they know I'm going to be here to help support them and whatever is they want to do.
Katie Kay
Yeah, and you have been an immense support for me. And I've like you've seen me go through journey, I got a free Bod Pod appointment, I forget what it was, I think one of my other appointments like got canceled last minute. And then they they gave me the bod pod, which is also at the liberal center. And so I went and did it. And it's kind of awkward to like put on a swimsuit cap and like you're in your skin like yeah, it can be clothing. Yeah. Yeah. And basically, it gives you your body composition. And, and then I saw my numbers. And I was like, Okay, maybe, like, I could use a nutritionist and like my mindset at the time, like, I had always been wanting to lose weight. And it was just like this big thing that like, I know, I share this a lot on the on the podcast, but just like I had a really hard relationship with my body. And at that point, when I came to see you it was like, I kind of transitioned from having a ton of shame around like my weight loss goal to just be like, okay, like, I'm ready, like, I'm ready. And so when I first came to you, it was like, I want to lose weight. And here's my numbers. And so we really focused on the numbers. But it's really evolved. It's changed, which we'll get into, but can you tell us like when your clients come to visit you? Is that a common? Like? Is that a very common struggle? Are there other struggles that are common as well?
Becky
Yes. So when most of my patients, I would absolutely say come to see me for weight loss. That's I would say the number one reason, I'm also seeing a ton of pre diabetes and diabetes, and some cardiac disease. But like you said, like with your experience, like weight loss or improving body comp is the number one reason and I would say yes, those struggles are so relatable. There's so many people and a lot of people have yo yo dieted as well, for so long, like for as long as they can remember, they've been on the diet since junior high, you know, so I think that's, there's just a lot of common humanity in that. And that would, is what starts the process and gets people in the door here.
Katie Kay
yeah. And my favorite thing about when I first came to see you, it was like, you just met me, like, right where I was at, and like looking back now it's like, you, you didn't tell me like, hey, like, don't lose weight, like, you don't need to lose weight, or like, you need to find self love or like, like, tackle other like, things that I also needed. But you were just really patient and like very, like, clear as far as like, Okay, here's what like what we're going to do to achieve your goal, which, at the time, like I really appreciate, and I still really appreciate because you allow that space for me to go at night jurby. And I remember like, at one point, we were talking about kind of transitioning from the numbers into more, like intuitiveness and you were like, Katie, like, been, you know, like a smaller weight. Like for me specifically, I'm just talking like, for my own body, you're like, it's not gonna make you any happier. And, and, and you're like, just, you know, like, be aware, like, be aware of that. And I was like, yeah, it didn't like it didn't actually make me any happier, which was something that I needed to realize on my own. But I really appreciate you as far as like you like, you just met me right where I needed to be at when I first came in and like we did achieve that goal, which like was a big thing for me.
Becky
Because when you when you first came in, right? Yes, we wanted to focus on weight loss and we actually did some macros we did some tracking, right? We talked about certain style, certain styles of eating, and like you you actually did like exactly what you wanted to do. Right? And when you said I'm really not happier, like, because when we first met, and I think that's part of my journey with patients is I don't know, like, I love to get to know my patients story, that's part of my approach, because I learned so much about you, with my time with you and your personal struggles with your body and body image or, like, Why? Why wasn't I happier when I actually accomplished like these numbers? Because on the other side of it, you know, I am a clinical dietitian, I know, our bodies thrive within certain ranges, like I can't ignore that part of my work. But I know there's a more important part to to the process. So it's, I do, I'll meet my patients, like, if that's what they want to do, let's do it. But if I hear more of a narrative in their story about, like, our experience, how it was, there was some of that people were commenting, right? People were commenting, they're like, Oh, you look so good. And they're commenting about your weight. And you're like, oh, you should do some of these fitness photos for us now. And, and you're like, that didn't really feel good, you know. And so when I hear those messages in my conversations, that's where I start to bring in, you know, what we'll talk about? Something that is, I think, one of the most important parts of the journey.
Katie Kay
Yeah, yeah. And it was, and it was, like, allowing that space to have that conversation. Because like I said, like, I carry a lot of shame, for wanting to lose weight. Like, it wasn't like I was overweight, I was just like, I don't know, 15 pounds were over where I wanted to be. And like, I was always struggling, like, restricting, and like, not really having a plan, but just kind of fighting it. And, and then so like, I felt like, well, I don't need to, like, I don't know, if I like, like need to share this with people because I don't want to like see, like, I don't like my body, even though I really didn't, like you know, didn't like my body. And like there was some shame wrapped up in it. But like, so when I came to you, and it's like, it's it, you have a really pleasant way of opening up space for just a conversation. And I felt like that was the courage that I needed to have was just to, like, speak my truth to you. And, and it's kind of nice just to have like somebody outside of your life that doesn't know you and like, interacting with you on a day to day,
Becky
like it's a safe place. Like, you can spill your guts. I haven't run into you yet in town.
Katie Kay
no, I'd be happy. But you know, like having like, same thing with therapy and like, just like somebody that's kind of has a different perspective. And do you feel like your clients? Like, is it similar to kind of mine? Like, do they go on their own journey that once they do achieve their goal? Like, do you feel like they they're done? And they kind of leave? And you don't see him again? Or do you kind of feel like the process continues and evolves like minded?
Becky
I mean, everyone's so unique, and has their different circumstances? So I think like, yes to that question, but everyone has their different journey. I've worked with someone who's lost 100 pounds, and they followed up with me for two years, just because the fear of like, am I gonna gain it back, and they didn't. Because we approached it in a very different way than they had before. And, or I've worked with someone who I've worked with a lot of people who have, you know, body image issues and body acceptance issues, or emotional eating issues. And, you know, we work through that journey. And it's an up and down in the learning experience all the time for them, but they're, they make progress and just want to keep following up. But we extend our follow ups or, you know, it just it can look so many different ways, but there's definitely an element of follow up. And there's an element that I hope they learn about themselves and why they tick along the way, because that can help them make different decisions that help them feel their best.
Katie Kay
Definitely, yeah, I kind of like definitely felt like I experienced that learning, learning about myself and yeah, very powerful. So for me when I first came to you, we did the macros and we did Mediterranean diet specifically and that was the one that you recommended. Is that the one that you usually recommend, are there multiple different types that you offer?
Becky
Yes and no. But as far as when I have a patient who comes to see me seeking weight loss we'll talk about I bring up the Mediterranean diet and we changed our handout so we call it like the Mediterranean eating style because I so normally the handouts that diet so just like to bring up like trying to get away from that that diet. You narrative, but I bring it up because there is a lot of research to support how it is supportive of our health that has a lot of preventive properties. I mean, if you focus on eating more whole foods, like the Mediterranean eating style encourages and avoid more processed foods, like, I mean, find me a reason why our body won't feel feel better with that. But it helps us with the quality. So that's usually why I bring it up. Because, you know, if we're looking at the facts, and like the principles of weight loss, you know, we know that there's there is a quantity component, and there is the quality. So we were tracking, and we were addressing the quantity with that. And then the quality, I think it's I think it's a simple way in the handouts that we have helps simplify, oh, yeah, like I can focus on these foods more often. And I can still include, you know, these foods, but maybe less often. And so quality and quantity. And that's how, like, it brought us brought that together, especially for us when we started working on that,
Katie Kay
right. And it was a big learning process for me with the like understanding the quantity and the quality. Like, we did it based on macros. And we saw I think I did 25% protein, 25% fat, and then 50% carbohydrates, and then I tracked it on my fitness pal. And so that was like the, like the facts and principles that you just mentioned. But like, as it has evolved, it's changed, like so much. And I almost feel like, it's like, the deeper layers of the truth behind my eating and emotions. And like I call Becky, my nutrition therapist, because there's yeah, there's like a lot of deeper stuff that, like, that's how I've evolved with food. And so I transitioned into the intuitive eating model. And so could you explain that just a little brief overview of what that would look like.
Becky
So the the definition of intuitive eating, mainly, so yeah, we there's a lot of different types of definitions, but really the premise of it, and what it comes down to is being connected with your body and responding to what your body's telling you. So like in short, eating when you're hungry, stopping when you're full. And just like you're saying, I think one of my favorite sayings is our health follows our habits. I mean, I don't know where it came from, maybe I made it up, maybe I'm cool enough to make up a quote. But it is ever like if when I was talking about numbers, our numbers follow our habits, our numbers follow what we're doing day to day. And when we can be really connected with what our body is telling us. That is, in my opinion, one of the best metrics we can use or the best metric to help us know what decisions to make. Because there's so many distractions, there's so many diets that really disrupt and don't allow us to really respond to what our body's telling us. And it doesn't even help us learn how that even works. We're so used to following rules, we're so used to following we're so used to following rules, and we're so used to following lists and feeling good or bad and, or pushing through the hunger. And it's just a really disruptive approach because we're not really learning in the long run, how to feed ourselves. And or, and we can create a relationship with food that brings in the guilt or the shame and then it that guilt and shame can feed over eating and it creates more emotions. And, you know, there's that whole cascade, but I think, you know, people say diets don't work, but they actually do, right. They if you follow a plan, like you did it, right. You follow tracking and it works. But it doesn't last. So people say diets don't work. They do. They don't last and that's what always brings me back. And that's really what brought us back to intuitive eating in addition to how you felt you didn't really like how you felt. Yeah. So there's a lot of irony in that.
Katie Kay
Yeah. And the Mediterranean diet, like I bring it up. I don't want it to be triggering, but like I also want us just to like, see the facts of like weight loss like weight loss and or weight and in general is something that like, I don't want to shy away from the topic because so many people are wanting it and I don't want there to be any shame in it. And I also don't want like macros and me saying like percentages to be triggering, because that was just like my own story. And I wouldn't go back to it because it was so short term. And it was really consuming my mental energy, like having to track all my calories and, and it was like, what you were just talking about was like, following this set of rules that, like, it wasn't giving me enjoyment in my food, it wasn't like, adding more happiness in my life. And, and it was like that point of losing the weight that like I had to realize for myself that I wasn't happier. This wasn't the route that made me happier around food. And so like, I was looking for something that fit into my life that really brought more joy to my eating, which Intuitive Eating did because it just, like allowed for more space. And understanding, I guess.
Becky
And, and I don't think that diets are the root of all evil, okay, like, you can do a diet and not have that relationship with food or your body like that is possible. And like you can lose the weight and keep it off like that stuff. It does exist. And I don't think macros or tracking are horrible. So I just have to say that because they, they you can coexist with them and not have some of those repercussions. But most of the time, I do see that so that you can have that space where like it does work. And maybe it does last and you don't have this disrupted relationship with food. But that that's why I go back to intuitive eating, if that happens, which most of the time safely, I can say it does. And it just pause. Yeah. What did you say a second ago?
Katie Kay
I guess I said, like, the rules and like I I felt like restricted and like it was joy, like I went over it right away. Okay.
Becky
Okay. And, and then what intuitive eating can do is bringing back that joy, like you were talking about. So there's a book that was written by two dieticians and they really coined that term intuitive eating. And they have these 10 principles of intuitive eating that are guides, and they, they're principles to follow. They're not rules, they're principles and guides, and one of them is making peace with food. And also another one's like finding the satisfaction factor. And foods meant to be enjoyed. But with our personal experience or with diets, it can be so disrupted and you know, if you're eating a piece of cake that truly is delicious, maybe there's a narrative about, you know, analyzing every little bite or morsel saying I shouldn't enjoy this, I shouldn't be doing this. But intuitive eating can really take you out of that war you have with food or your body and have like more appreciation and enjoyment for it.
Katie Kay
And I'm really glad you brought up that point because I don't think it's for like any of us to say like, if one way is good, or the other way is bad. So like macros might be a really positive thing for somebody, and something that they can count on and and like I have a friend and he just started doing it or intermittent fasting and his lifestyle, like he was already kind of doing that anyway, so it fit really well. And I could see the hope in Him of like having something to follow that felt good for him and like it fit into his lifestyle and it wasn't something that like, felt like restrictive or obsessive and, and so I kind of like I see it as like even intuitive eating like that might not be the best approach for somebody either like It's like it so like and I just want to make that point because like as we're talking about it like obviously I'm an advocate of it because like that really spoke to me and it's really worked but like I also don't want this podcast to be like you can follow right like do this do this like I want to just like open up the space for people to say like what feels good to them. And it might evolve to right for me it evolved in that line that's like totally fine as well. But I think yeah, like for me like looking at like the macros and following that I think it was like it became a negative thing when I like I was using too much control. And that was kind of like crossing the line. So sometimes I kind of think like, if I see that controller, I see that obsessive behavior, like that's a red flag. If it's not making me feel good, like that's a red flag. So it's like, just like you said at the beginning, it's like a process of understanding yourself better, which is like the most, I think, the most powerful and empowering thing that you can get from, you know, seeing a dietician or just exploring your relationship to food.
Becky
In general, something you said stood out to me, like brought up the word freedom, like food freedom to me, because when we, I think any approach, even intuitive eating, intention is so important to me. And that's something I talk to my patients about, because you can do intermittent fasting, you can track your macros. But I always I do think it is important for us to check in with our intention. Because if you can try, you can have the mindset of oh, I'm good or bad, or I'm intuitive, or I'm not. And just try and analyze that too much. And it can become a diet for you. But the intention is really important. Because if your intention is to control or restrict, I think that takes us out of having respect for our body. And that is part of intuitive eating is, we all get one body, and it's important for us to honor it and respect it so we can enjoy this beautiful world that we have. And our body helps us do that. And so making peace with food, so you feel free when eating food, because a lot of the times too, we a lot of if you're a diet, or particularly or have had a history of yo yo dieting, it's not uncommon to have a constant narrative about food or weight and exercise. And there's so much real estate that is taken up in our minds about these things, when intuitive eating can help us have that freedom and breaking through. You know, making peace with food in our body, just breaking through that mentality to know that, you know, there's there really more important things in life than how we look. And it's important for us to take care of our body. And that can look a lot of different ways. But making peace with that. It sounds like Fairyland, like eating when you're hungry, stopping when you're full, you know, eating what you want, focusing on how you feel. But it is. I mean, what sounds about. About that space, I think it's a really peaceful and freeing space to be.
Katie Kay
Definitely, yeah, and like, when you're talking, I just, I was thinking about the podcast name, like body breaking free. And that's like, it wasn't really something that I thought too long and hard at, but it's come up a lot. It's like, we all want to feel free. And I think like, when you look deeper, it's like food. I think we all want to have some sort of joy when it comes to like nourishing our bodies. And I know that likes the control mindset, like that can also feel like freedom. I've dealt with a lot of control, just issues that like I've dealt with in therapy. And I've realized, like, it's a much deeper layer than just like, my relationship to food. And we kind of even talked about that my last nutrition appointment. And, and it's like, for me, it was like this almost false sense of freedom.
Becky
Oh, 100% Yeah. Because control makes you feel safe. Right?
Katie Kay
Yeah, yeah, control in it. And that's what it was. It was like this layer of protection. I was protecting myself with the control. And I think it was like protecting fear. I don't know, like, I mean, I'm still exploring it for myself. And I guess that's like, the journey I'm on now is like, understanding those deeper layers. And the it's all like, the crazy thing is, I found is like how interrelated everything is. And like, obviously, right? Like, everything's interrelated. But like when I go to my therapist, and we talk about control, and like I'm working on that I can see my relationship like it reflecting and my relationship to food. And I know we've kind of talked about this before and Janine Roth's women, food and God, she kind of has that same concept of the relationship that you have to like weight loss is a reflection of the relationship that you have with your life. So if you're like manic and crazy and control, like it's going to show up in the way that you're eating food. And once you Got a dress the and address the control and the manic and whatever, then the like the weights not going to be in it like it'll either just like, fall off or like, I mean, that's what she saw in her clients is like, once they address those other issues like the weight just fell off, it wasn't like a, you don't have to like, do the diets anymore. Do you see like those deeper kind of like emotions a lot. I know we kind of touched on that earlier. But like maybe specifically with the control mentality
Becky
all the time, I would say I've had a similar experience to that author. Yeah, she. So she was like meeting with clients, and she was working on them with their goals, but she really found out that all these aspects of their life were influencing their health behaviors. And I would say like, that really sums up a lot of the experiences I've had, because we don't, we are so influenced right by the other factors of our life and emotions and emotional eating, in fact, are one of the biggest reasons for weight gain or regain. And we are not always eating because we're hungry, we're eating because of some trigger. If we're stressed or bored, tired, we're grieving. Food is always there, it's an Oreo is always gonna taste the same. It's just around the corner, at the grocery store. It's consistent, it doesn't disappoint us like people do. And we do temporarily feel good. But they're i That's why I love again, like our help follows our habits. Because when we can understand why we're doing those habits, and a lot of times because of emotions that can help us pivot. And in fact, you know, I'm looking and thinking about my patients today, and I have patients, you know, who cry everyday in my office, or I'll have some patients who've sobbed through our whole appointment, you know, there's so many real reasons that are affecting us, you know, outside of my work that I know, influence, you know, what I'm still working on with my patients. And if we can recognize, first of all, that that's what's happening. Because a lot of times, we don't realize that we're stress eating, we don't realize that we're just unwinding after a long day, or we're just deflecting a task we have to do and just eating and to avoid doing it. When we can recognize that that is happening and no ROI, or no our intention for eating, it's not to police ourselves, it's not to say, I can't do this, but to understand why. And answer it by with the question or with the answer of what does my body really need? Or what do I really need, I need to address that emotion. And, or that control, or whatever that is that's feeding this behavior to really feed what that emotion needs versus giving my body food when it doesn't need it. Because that's actually, I think, a big level of disrespect to our body, when we are constantly feeding it when we're not hungry. And even more than that, we're not going to feel good, we may feel good in the moment, if we have a sleeve of Oreos, or whatever it may be. But after that, or an hour after that, it's not that it's bad that it happened. It's just you're not really gonna feel your best, most likely,
Katie Kay
totally, I'm just gonna adjust the camera structure. It's like, just sounds like battery, which is fine. I just don't want to charge or either Oh, it's fine. I have a charger but it's I just want to make sure that one saved. So at least they have something. So yeah, and I said this on the podcast before, but I have been working with you for the last few months on just hunger and fullness cues. And like, that's kind of interesting, right? Like, as far as like how long I've been working on it and trying to just like, understand and tune back into my body and like giving myself that patience to learn has been really compassionate thing. And I know that like we all kind of like we want change fast and like we want to get to our goals and especially if you don't feel good in your body, like that can be a really hard place to be in. And that was another thing I learned is just like, it's okay to not feel okay, like being with the discomfort and not always having to fix it right away. Like what was a very compassionate way that I could approach myself. In the meantime, while I'm learning. I'm learning what it feels like to be hungry. I'm learning what it feels like to be full and like at first I was using that intuitive scale. And then I just like it up volved in, in eventually it was like, I it kind of just like had like it. It was like the journey and I was like, yeah, like I feel those sensations in my body. And like, I remember talking to you about it and I was like, I was like, it was like eating a hamburger at dinner and I had like, like two or like one more big bite left. And, like, at that moment, like without even thinking about, like, the intuitive scale or like, without like, it, it wasn't never like an obsessive thing. It was just like being like tuning in and like, like catching myself and like just having that awareness. But like, the moment I was like, oh, like, I just had my fullness and like, normally, I don't think like, I wouldn't be able to tune into that, you know, and, like, okay, granted, like, I finished my hamburger, because I wanted to, and like, that's what sounded good. And I'm sure I was like drinking alcohol too. So I have, like, you know, like, filling up, but, um, like, it was it like, it was like that moment for me. I was like, okay, like, I've kind of come somewhere with this, like all the patients and know what it feels like, yeah, it's like led me to, I know what it feels like.
Becky
And it's amazing how many people don't know what it feels like to be hungry or to feel full like or both or either one of them. Because we are a lot of times like think of like throughout the day, or like if you have a busy job. It's like you're kind of in fight or flight all day. So you're like, oh, gosh, I go all day without eating. And as soon as I get home, I'm like starving or, or like you're stressed at work and you're snacking all day. But you can not really recognize that because you're not taking that time to listen, or you have all this food on your plate. And you're used to just eating everything and like your normal is just feeling overly full all the time, or you eat your late dinner and use you don't feel hungry in the morning. But then you start that cascade of starting in the afternoon and continuing to the evening. And then it continues that snowball. So I think and I also we can also say, create that diet mentality with intuitive eating saying, Oh, well, I can't eat this because I'm full. And I have two bytes left, but I'm full and I'm going to be good and not eat it. So just keeping in check with that intention. You know, but if you're having the best hamburger of your life, like you should probably, you know, you should probably enjoy if you're in Italy having the best pasta, you should have 10 up. Yeah, yeah. You know, there's a place to go beyond that, you know, and and I bring it back to will you feel good. If you're always eating more, even if you recognize your fullness? Usually no. And but there is a place for it. Yeah, and one thing I was thinking about just from a past comment is I do not encourage intuitive eating as a diet or like a weight loss approach. It's really an anti diet approach. And it is something that can help you heal your relationship with food. And weight loss can be a side effect, but the intuitive eating gods would strike me down. Like there's no such thing as like intuitive weight loss. There's Intuitive Eating where that can be a side effect. But our intent isn't to do it for weight loss because we started talking about it because of that relationship and that those feelings and that mindset and your experience versus weight loss like we let that go but and I don't think you've ever been happier in our in our work together. But so I just have to make that disclaimer because someone's probably thinking about that but
Katie Kay
right right and like I'm glad you bring that up because it's like I was almost like attracted to the point of like the so Evelyn and I think it's reach rush Elise rush and Evelyn Tripoli, Tripoli, okay, Tripoli. Um, so when, like, I listened to the audio, so, like, listen to the book on tape, and they were talking about, like, what you just said it could it could potentially be a side effect the weight loss because when you start tuning into your body's own signals, it's going to lead you to like, a place that it feels best, like where it is weight wise. And, and they said most of us are like not tuning in to those signals. So we will have more weight potentially because we might go towards food for emotions and and, like the weight loss wasn't necessarily attractive to me. No, I think it was like, I still like I wanted to be at a good weight. Like I wanted to feel good on my mountain bike like I didn't want to feel like weighted down. I remember when I lost all that weight like I felt really athletic, not happier, happier, overall happier. But like, I guess weight was still on my mind when I went into the intuitive eating process. But also important as far as like, I did want to honor my body, like wherever it needed to be at what felt the best when I can tune into its signals and be aware and like now over time, like, that's way more important to me. Because it's like, yeah, it's like kind of honoring, like your body in that way. Like,
Becky
versus like being so focused on a number. Like I'll have people tell me their wedding weight all the time. Like they weighed themselves that morning, and they got married. And that's what they were thinking about. Like, there's, shouldn't there be some other things you should be worried about? But yeah, like a number can rule our lives. And we can do all these things, like track our macros, or track our calories to achieve in number two, like we've talked about, to a degree can prove our health. Yeah, yeah, it can. But if it's five or 10 pounds, like, are you going to spend the rest of your time and energy and thought for the rest of your life day in day out? For five to 10? pounds? It's not really, it's just not going to make you happy, right? If it makes you feel better, like that's a, I've had patients ask me that were like, what if I feel better? I'm like, Well, I think that's a more positive intention. So, but what lifestyle? Do you want to participate in day to day to achieve that, and if it's realistic, and feels good to them? Like that's workable? But if it's just a number to say, it's a number is ask that question to yourself, you know,
Katie Kay
yeah, and that's almost like a sense of purpose. Like, I know, for me, it was like, I put my purpose into my weight loss goal. And so that created more meaning for me. And I, like, I think that it's like, the human mind likes to have a, like a mountain to climb or a purpose to follow. And I think I was like, kind of lost in my own life, that I wasn't really sure what like, who like, to an extent that I feel like I do now, like who I am, like, who I want to show up in this world as and, and, and I think like, now my purpose has shifted into, like, the desire to get get to know myself better, which like that purpose is, has felt so much better than the purpose of the numbers like you were talking about. But doesn't mean that the numbers aren't still triggering to me. Like when when I come into the appointments, we do blind going in blind, blind way. And it's like, I don't look at the numbers, because that's not something like I'm sure at some point, it won't be triggering. But I'm not willing to like, put my plate and put myself I don't feel comfortable yet to be in that place. And sometimes
Becky
I don't even have patience, do a blind way. And we don't even get on the scale, just because the act of getting on the scale is really triggering and hard. And that's okay. Like, why does it matter is knowing the number going to change the work that we're doing? No.
Katie Kay
Yeah. And that's why I feel like it's so important to have somebody in your corner. Like when I first came to see you my insurance, I got five free nutrition appointments. And I think that's pretty common. And I didn't know about it, they weren't like promoting it, but like, so I started because it was free. And a lot. I mean, it's not like in the end, that's also you're at the hospital and there's like certain dieticians like the insurance, you know, supports but, but like, like, even though that, like got me in the door, and like the bod pod, like basically, I was just like going for all the free stuff. freebies. Yeah. But like, it's like, having somebody in my corner is like been the most valuable thing. Like, being able to like Express. Like, oh, maybe like maybe the numbers aren't like what's best for you today and, and then yeah, so I just like I want to just promote that as well for people because like, it does take courage to walk into the door like it can take money takes time. But especially if you're struggling with food, like it's such an open and inviting space to be able to, like move past those move past those struggles and Yeah, and like I said, like get to know yourself better.
Becky
And I'm glad like you felt the way and had that experience and I know like I definitely have a passion for Intuitive Eating So I really don't want my patients to feel uncomfortable. But like you said earlier, like, if someone comes to me and they're like, Okay, let's track like, this is what I would do, like we're gonna do that, like, I want to do what my patients want to do. And I will like softly suggest or and I will bring up intuitive eating and ask if patients have ever heard about it. And sometimes like yeah, like I do really struggle with you know, being on diets or not feeling like I you know, intuitive eating sounds like I need more goals. I feel uncomfortable not having goals. I'm looking at numbers all the time, or I do know I eat when I'm stressed.
Katie Kay
Like maybe being able to come and like talk. Like, because, like most people, they don't have that space to be able to, like, even talk about food or, like, they, I mean, it's like, if they're struggling, and like, they just kind of like stay in their own mind, right, and have like, live in a struggle. And, like, you can have that support. And when you go in and like, I mean, I do therapy too. But it's like having somebody in your corner to like, support you. And like, just knowing that and the journey. Like I think that's like, like, the like, the biggest thing is like, Okay, I come in once every few months, but then like, I come back in, and we talk and then like, I have a whole new like intention, like, like, keeps me moving forward. And like the most positive way.
Becky
And, and so when you say journey, like that's the word that was coming to me is it is it is not sexy. It is not like a, this is going to happen fast. This is going to be right now. Because most people say Oh, I wanted to lose 10 pounds, and I wanted to lose it yesterday. And when we get desperate, we get stupid, right? We go back to diets, but it's a journey. And it's, it's the most lasting to get that connection. And one of the parts of the journey with intuitive eating is that it is a journey of connection in so many ways. And you're connecting with your emotions better, you're connecting with your body better. And like emotionally, physically, spiritually, there's all this different type of connection, and it creates that space to have that happen. And it's when you also say the safe space, everything you've experienced is so normal, you are normal, and it is okay to feel that way. And it's okay. I have people who feel embarrassed. They're like people, like I've worked with people on my family, they have no idea I'm here, they have no idea I've struggled with this for so long. And in the book there's describes different types of eaters. So you have like the careful eater who's someone who appears maybe that they're in control. And like they've got it figured out quote, unquote, but they're really deep down struggling and they do still analyze a lot of what they're eating. And I feel like this patient like related to that, but she was really miserable. She was always playing this game in her mind and at war with herself. And still feeling bad. And she would weigh yourself all the time. And we really worked through some of that with her journey, and it was a space where she could talk about that and she wasn't stupid or dumb or wrong for feeling that way that was normal and all valid. And it just helped her get away from she she finally put her scale away. She was able to let go and just enjoy more and like live her life without having food control her. You know, she was in control. Yeah. And it just, it was a big part of that journey for so yeah, I really like that word.
Katie Kay
Yeah, definitely a journey and it's like this like, step by step process. It's like I always Danna podcasts, like a half a step like it, and, like makes the biggest difference because like you are building consistency, you're building lasting change, like when you give yourself that patience to just take it, like, half a step. And, like, the minds, minds are so like, tricky as far as like, they really want us to stay in that comfortable, and that's where it's most efficient. And when we get if we overload too fast, like with a ton of discomfort, like, it's never gonna last, like be a long lasting change because, right, right, which is like, what happened for me and, but, like, again, like I like. Okay, so I guess I'm promoting that half a step in like, whatever direction that you want to take. Because like that will be the, the way that you can do long lasting change. And, and I think like all of us, if we're looking for a change, like we don't want to just to be short term and, and like sometimes that's actually how it like needs to happen. And it'll be short term, and you'll learn something out of it, and then go a different route. But I'm glad that you picked up on that word journey. Because like, it's like it is and it's not always gonna be like the most fun, like me sitting with my anxiety, instead of eating food, like, and just being with myself and placing one hand on my heart and one hand on my belly and just like breathing as like, not a comfortable feeling. Because that's not what I'm used to.
Becky
And, like, I don't want to be with myself, like, I want to go to food, and it takes more work. Yeah, like, it's, there's another level of thoughtfulness. It's, it's not easy, I wouldn't say it's the hardest thing. But if anything takes us out of our comfort zone, or takes us away from our habits, like that's something different, which requires a different level of effort and thoughtfulness. So, but history is the best predictor of the future. Right. And behavior change is one of the hardest things that I do with any my patients. For that reason, it takes us out of our comfort zone. And it's different. And it does take work. So but obviously, the reward is priceless, but also has to be realistic to you know, I'm not expecting someone who doesn't exercise to go run a marathon. No way. Yeah. But that is it is hard to do something that's different.
Katie Kay
Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad you brought that up. Because do you feel like the work like it, I agree. Like, it's hard work. It's like deeper work that like it connects to on a deeper level, which makes it feel uncomfortable, like you kind of have to be in that discomfort. But do you feel like the work is like, it's not as busy, it's not as like, so if somebody is like really busy, they have a busy schedule. And they're like listening to the podcast that like, I like give them all these tools. And like, I offer all these things. And like the diets like you, you can track all your calories. It's like, it's like adding, like the like adding to the overwhelm. I almost feel like and I feel like diets like for me at least it was like it was like the it kept me in the busy which I was used to. So I was comfortable with it. But when I shifted to the intuitive, it gave me like more space, like more me time, like more breathing room. But it was still harder because I had to like dig in deeper. So I feel like it's a different heart. Like it's a different. Like, it's like the busy compared to like the harder kind of emotional work. What do you think about that, because that's like that kind of is on my mind. Because I think about like the listeners and I just want to like off. I don't want to overload them with too much because I know that they're already busy people. But then like relating it to diets like I feel like that's like a similar kind of relation.
Becky
I'm so much a realist whenever I like make goals or we talk about doing anything different, like that's part of meeting patients where they're at. So I think it is really important to be realistic with anything we apply. But I do always bring up like history's the best predictor of the future. We need to like acknowledge that and accept that something will need to be different to have a different result. And so where's that space going to be in your life where we can do something different and where does it feel most comfortable and realistic. And one of the analogies I really love like with that deeper like emotional nutritional work is just the fuel for the fire. In the smoke, because diets are BandAids, and our behavior, or behavior is that smoke, but that fuel for the fire is like the stress the time or the emotion that's feeding that behavior that doesn't really honor and respect our body. And when we can really recognize what that is, and see how we can address that realistically, like that is the harder work to really say I'm stressed or I had a fight with my boyfriend or my husband, or like work sucks right now. Like we're short staffed, and I'm over tired and like those, it's harder to address the stress than it is to eat the Oreo. I always say Oreo. I don't know why it's just easy.
Katie Kay
But I love Oreo. So that's really why are you connecting with me?
Becky
No. It's, but does that help? Like answer that question? Like we it is always it's like going to therapy, like for trauma we've been through like, it is so hard to even just make the appointment. And then we have to get there and then talk about it and actually feel our feelings that's really hard to like, lean into that pain. And we're just leaning into, like, what's making us tick with the decisions we're making. So I had a patient today she is she has a lot of stress. And evening time is like her snacking time, like, and she is she has a lot going on, say the least. And that's just how she unwinds. But she knows, you know, the quality of the food, you know, she she eats really food that really has a lot of nutrition and really nourishes her body. But she's still not respecting her body because she's eating more than what she needs. She is full and going beyond fullness. And we really talked about why that's happening for her. And it is the stress. And so we talked about removing herself from the situation or from the kitchen, and doing something that really feeds her soul that's realistic for her that works for her. Like, whatever it may be, it's all different for all of us. But how can we fill that space with something that really serves us instead of using food to manage it? Or if it's like time for exercise? You know, that's just an example. But how can we address that fuel for the fire? So there's less smoke?
Katie Kay
Oh, I love that analogy. I'm gonna ponder on that. That's really, really good. And yeah, I can totally relate to your patient. Same thing, like snacking at night, like, you know this for me and, and that we've come up with a list of tools that like are much more self care oriented that like, like lavender eyemask are like a weighted blanket or, like, making tea and, and I like I don't want to share like these as, like, as a direction. Like, I just want to share these as like, like, yeah, I don't want to put that on somebody and be like, these are the tools that will work for you. But it's like finding your own ways of like, what's gonna feel best. Because like you I remember you kind of said like, well, maybe a walk, like outside would be nice. And I was like, Nope, I was like, anything I have to do. That's like, takes effort. I won't do it. Like, that wasn't your option. Option, which, yeah, so yeah, I just like I love that you like address all the parts of the person and meet them where they're at. And like, that's what a like a really good guide, or like coach or somebody there to support you. Does and so I'm so appreciative of you and all of our appointments. Can you can you share a little bit about your own story and, like, you just had a baby so cute. And if you're willing to share and if not, like, we don't have to go into your
Becky
I mean, I can't expect my patients to and for me not to I don't get as vulnerable like during appointments because it's about my patient. It's not about me, but I'm not some like unicorn who's never had, you know, Gil after eating food or just always has lived in fairy land where everything's perfect. Absolutely not. Um, that's definitely not my story. But I would say I think we have a really good narrative these days about mental health. Am I looking back? Oh my gosh, I struggled with anxiety like I am an anxious person I remember even like when I was eight years old, like worrying about the gas tank not being full like when the gas light went on just and then I played sports so the anxiety around game time, like I didn't know what I was feeling but hindsight is always 2020 Like I textbooks anxiety and I didn't even really recognize it until college. So my passion for Intuitive Eating didn't really start until I started practicing. So it wasn't even a driving force for like me being a dietitian, but I just knew when especially in college, I would say, I wasn't an anxious eater in high school, but I definitely was in college. And, like, school was hard. It was really, I was really stressed about school all the time. And I would totally turn to food and I, I did gain a lot of weight. And I had a lot of shame with that. Because people knew I was studying nutrition like I it didn't change my path to be a dietician, I had a lot of shame and embarrassment about being in a bigger body at that time. And feeling judged. And you know, I always felt stupid when I would tell people that because my immediate thought, right is like, oh, gosh, they, they think I'm overweight, and they think I'm a dietician, they don't think I practice what I preach. And, and I don't think I really didn't know what was going on them either. Like I was just trying to get through school, get through finals, all of that. So, and even in my master's program, I think I still really struggled with that. And it wasn't until like, I started working, that I was able to make more peace with food and but it was hard like, I, I would overeat, I would feel uncomfortable. I would feel embarrassed, guilt, shame, all of that. I didn't love going to gyms because I felt like people were gonna analyze my body or I wouldn't always talk a lot about what nutrition I guess people ask me questions, but I even had a patient once they're like, I would like you to like, talk to my wife, because, you know, like, you look more like a safe person. And they would comment on like me having a bigger body. So I was yeah, those things were really hard for me, but I, I don't feel like I definitely had moments right where I didn't appreciate my body. And I wish I looked different. I'm also really tall. I'm six one, and I you know, I played all the tall sports. So like, it was good for that. But I all my best friends are shorter and have smaller bodies. And I just felt like I had those moments. I'm like, was there something wrong with me? Should I look a different way? Would I be more likeable? Would I be happier? Wouldn't life be better with those experiences, if I looked different. And I obviously know now that's not true. But those were things I had to make peace with. And the thing that's helped me the most is focusing on how I feel. Because I was so uncomfortable. I think it wasn't about the number for me as much I was so uncomfortable. I felt I didn't feel good. When I was over eating, I just felt uncomfortable being in a bigger body. And for me, I just, I was hearing all these experiences from my patients and I'm like, I you know, I can relate to that. And I just focused on my body being the guide. And that's really what helps me like I all foods like I don't, I wouldn't, I don't give my eating style a title. I don't need to give what and how I eat a title. But I really do like all foods, you know, I eat Oreos. I eat ice cream. I eat pizza, but I I know, I don't feel good when I eat them all the time. So there's a space for them in my life. But I do eat foods that I like that helped me feel good. And that's like the best marriage for me with my relationship with food and, and people are probably wondering, like, did she lose the weight? What happened there, you know, like, what's going on? Like, it was a side effect of me making peace with food. And and I think something that has helped me have the greatest amount of respect for my body is pregnancy. It literally my body has given me my greatest gift of my life. And it didn't bother me when my body was changing. It didn't. I had so much gratitude and respect for my body during that time. And all I cared about was if my baby was healthy, I didn't care what it looked like. And then and then after having my baby like I did feel uncomfortable, like I had a bigger body than before I got pregnant and you know, I'm still in that space. It's nine months I use numbers only almost 10 months and I still don't feel like I was before I had my baby but it doesn't bother me that much. I appreciate my body. I know I'm not going to be happier if I'm like at this certain number and I know when I happen there, I wasn't happy and my life wasn't better for it. But I really just want to be to feel good and I I eat foods that I like I eat foods that maybe don't have a lot of nutrition, but I enjoy. And I keep that as a part of my plan. I know that all food is an option. I move with exercise because it makes me feel good. But if some mornings, I'm like, you know, I'm tired. And I just want to be here with my partner and enjoy this moment. Like, I don't feel guilty for it. And so I don't exercise just because I'm burning calories exercise because it feels good. And if I want to walk instead of run, you know, I'll do that differently. And there's still moments I have to say, I'm still like, I'm not a unicorn, I didn't have this experience. And I'm not free of saying, like, oh, I guess I shouldn't have had that. Like, those moments can still cross oops, sorry, no, you're good. Those moments can still cross my mind. But then I can say, oh, like, Oh, that was stupid. Like, I'm not stupid. But that that's not really appreciating, like what I just had, like that just took away from that, like, delicious moment I had or that pro celebration, I was out like, okay, like next time, just focus in on going and maybe I'll feel more comfortable if I don't eat as much sure. But that wasn't a bad thing that happened. So I still have moments where I have to check myself and I'm still like, I'll always be on this journey. But like, I've, I can honestly say, I have never been happier with my body. And food doesn't control me or take up a lot of space. In my mind, in fact, like, things are so busy. I'm like, oh, gosh, I gotta, you know, I am like, oh, yeah, I do need to eat lunch, you know, and I still get hungry, like I need to eat, but it's not something I'm, I don't think about like, the things in the cupboard thinking about when I get to eat them, like, you know, so that's kind of that's where I'm at. But I, I just, but it took time. Like it's taken. Yeah, it's taken years. It hasn't been overnight. But I would say take me, it took me a couple years to really feel like in this place. So there's your long answer. But no, that's just where that's just kind of me and my relationship with food, and my body changed during that time. And, and I know it would have been harder if I didn't do that work beforehand, my baby. And the other thing, other people's comments or opinions, I chose a partner, I married someone who is very body positive. And it would be hard for me to be with someone who wasn't that way. But that's not the reason why I married them. But I independently I am happy with me. And other people's opinions are like, Are there they're what I pay for him, I didn't pay anything for him, they're worth nothing, right? i It's important for me to be independently happy. Outside of that, and even outside of like what my partner tells me or feels about me I feel independently happy. And but it does help to have someone who's not constantly breaking you down. So surrounding yourself with people who are positive. But that, that I was more at peace before you know I was married or I had kids. We we cannot get our validation through others in that way. And I think that's another important part of like that body positivity among many other things. We could have just talked about that, but I just I just feel really happy and grateful.
Katie Kay
Thank you for sharing your story. I have a big smile on my face because I like it just goes to show like, like we all are on our own path. And, like, it's important for people to know that you're not a unicorn. And like, same thing with me as like, I like to tell the audience like, Look, I'm not in this like perfect place. Like I'm still working on things. But like, I smile so big because like, I know, like how much better it like my life is. Like it's incredible and like, and being able to come here and like that's a big thing too is like we get to reflect on how far I've come is like, like the biggest thing like I'd never would have thought like my ability to change would be so massive. And like when you were talking is like all of those really joyful words of like peace and finding that connection and just like being happy. It's like it's like when you're in that place of like have like restrictive and you feel suffocated and your relationship to food and like especially your own body like What you said like feeling uncomfortable in your own body? Like, there's nothing harder, like, at least from what I feel like, it's like you're in your body every day. But like the just like, showing, like, it's like you practice it, and then you get to a place and like, even though yes, like, we're not like unicorns, like, we haven't achieved some perfect place, like, at least there's like hope and just like, like how, like, a crazy like, you can find enjoyment and food and life and your body and like you talking about how grateful you are, like, that's the highest energy of like, like your body, like just like showing so much gratitude for it. So I just like I just, like, filled my heart with like, so much like happiness that I think like is it good message to spread to, like everyone and like, we're all on our own path. And like, I don't want to, to make anybody feel less than if they're like, in a place of struggle, but just to make them feel like, there's like, there's light. And like we like it, I can see. Just growing up in a society. Like it is like the culture. It's like, like, I think a lot of us have just started in the same exact place like the people like just like caring what people ever think other people so much, and that anxiety and they're, like restricting food and just in like, what you're sorry, one more thing. Yeah, so the things that talk about but we are saying is like, those thoughts still come in. And like that's our old mindset. And I and I don't know if like for me, they'll ever stop coming in like, but now like having the awareness like I can relate to it so much. Like, I'll notice myself, I'm like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe I just had like that ice cream or whatever. And like I'm, and I'm like, and I'm like see it and I'm like, Oh my gosh, that's my old mindset and like, it's like that awareness of being separate from it in like, just knowing like, okay, maybe it's never gonna go away, but like the ability to change is still there. Yeah.
Becky
No, it's like, I've got to fact check myself, you know. And in some moments, like, there's, there's still there's still times where I'm like, oh, yeah, like, that's, I just, you have to accept it, acknowledge it, and then throw it out the window. And there's a, there was like, a little, one of my patients showed this to me, but it was like, you know, have that saying, like, I gotta get back on the wagon, you know, I'm never gonna get back on the wagon, because I burned it to the ground. You know, like, the wagon is gone. And it's ashes. Because you'll, if you're trying to please others, or you know, be a certain number, because that's what you think you should be or that was your wedding Wait, like, you're just health and wellness and life and happiness can look in so many different ways. And you'll be more miserable, trying to, like, accomplish and achieve those things, or worrying about what people think, which is a whole different topic, as well. But you'll just like you said, like, you were you weren't happier. And there's, like, this feeling is priceless, even though like, there's always going to be a little bit of fact checking or things creeping back in. And, you know, I don't know how I'll feel in a year, but I think it's important for me to, you know, do things. It's like, I'm in recovery, right? I got to do things that feed that mindset.
Katie Kay
Definitely, definitely recovery and, and thank you so much for sharing your story and close, like being here and giving us all so much knowledge. Like I ended it. I mean, that just like, I would never like judge anybody. Like, I feel like it's so common that we just like, we all have that background of struggle. And like kind of why I started the podcast is like, I could talk to each one of my friends. And they could tell me a story of how they struggled with their body. And like, it's astounding to me, like, okay, like something, something needs to shift here. Like there just needs to be a light. And like you're a light in this world for that exact reason. And so yeah, thank you so much. And also any like, if there's any last messages that you want to share, or if we kind of like hit it all like that's fine as well. But last words and then like where we can connect with you. I'll put all your like contact information in the show notes as well.
Becky
I would say, you know, and this is coming from my perspective, is get connected with how you feel. And like, let that be your guide. And you will. I mean, I would be surprised if you didn't see that you made different decisions based on how you felt and just following that with the intention of respecting yourself and the one body that we all have. So when people say life is too short, but I think it is too long to worry about the wrong things. And it's also too long to not feel well, in your own skin. Our bodies are a sacred vessel to carry us through this world. So let's take care of them by getting connected.
Katie Kay
Thank you so much, Becky. And yeah, so special to have you and listeners. Thank you for being here.
