48. Discover This New Niche: How Chinese Medicine Will Change Your Fitness / Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

May 5

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Andy Tsz Chiu Chan has a passion for making a positive impact in the fitness industry by integrating Chinese medicine to bring more balance into your health. Andy is the co-author of Dynamic Balance, integrating principles of traditional Chinese medicine into strength and conditioning. Andy was so enjoyable to talk to on today's episode as we explore the benefits of Chinese medicine on your physical routine. We talk about how to approach exercise control, why decreasing your stress will improve your performance, and how to deal with body image. Andy is so genuine and only wants to spread the positivity of his knowledge out into the world to make everyone's lives more balance, happy and healthy.

"Why don't I just embrace who I am, and just be my own self and work on being a better instructor for other people instead of just glorifying my own body image."~Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Episode Topics:

Imbalances in our physical and mental health
How Chinese medicine integrates into your fitness training
Decreasing stress
Qi and Yin-Yang philosophy
Diet
Self-Image & Social Media

Katie Kay

Hey, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of body breaking free. We have an amazing guest today, Andy Chan is on the podcast. He is a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist, educator and presenter from Hong Kong. He is also the author of dynamic balance, we get into all these amazing topics. However first, before we dive in, please support the podcast. One thing that's new, I have put the link to the newsletter. And this will just help connect us more. And then also just allows me to give you guys more freebies and content. And of course, it's that kind of email lists that I'm able to reach out and give you guys all the updates all the updates on the podcasts. That's kind of where the community is at right now. And so if you want that extra information, go ahead and sign up there. The link is in the show notes. It's Katie Kay graham.com, forward slash newsletter. Okay, you guys. So Andy, I just had such an amazing conversation, we talk about the aspect of his business where he is a personal trainer. And well how he got into that, how he helps his clients. But what I love about Andy is he creates this beautiful lens from which he sees physical activity and sees the body. And that is through Chinese medicine. And so it's bringing in this element of energy and looking at your emotions and looking at maybe even like the spiritual aspect, and really kind of integrating all of these aspects that isn't a one size fits all right? It's dynamic in the way that it approaches your body. So that is you, it's about you, and where can you find balance that is specific for you and your goals and your body and meeting you exactly where you are. So I was just pleasantly surprised by how our conversation, we first get into Andy's work and what he specifically does, then we talk about his niche, looking through the lens of Chinese medicine, and then also talk about his book and dynamic balance and how he focuses on recovery. And then we get into as we kind of get deeper into a conversation, we talk about some of those concepts of body image and dealing with social media and how do you how do you live a life where you want change, but you might feel stuck. And you don't want necessarily want all that control and obsession that's wrapped up in the western culture of accomplishing goals and you know, all the mayhem that comes with that, especially when it comes to the body. And if you're trying to get in shape if you're trying to lose weight. Yeah, Andy does such a beautiful job of integrating the whole person and everything involved with that and, and learning more about Chinese medicine. It's such a cool perspective. So I'm excited for you guys to listen, I really enjoyed this conversation. So I think that you guys were just gonna love it. Yeah, um, reach out. rate and review the podcast, leave a comment if there's something that you love that Andy talked about. That's a great place to put it or you know, reach out to him on Instagram and just let him know like, how you enjoyed the podcast what you learned or me as well, like we love just hearing back. So yeah, I won't just you know, chit chat anymore. Let's just dive into the episode. Sit back and take a listen.

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Thank you so much for having me. I am speaking to you from the future in Hong Kong. I know we were talking about that before. Like right before we got on I was like, it is just blows my mind that it is 8am your time and 6pm my time. So I am in the past.

Katie Kay

But also like the coolest thing that I think that we can communicate so far away. So this is really special that we are here together.

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yeah. And I think that's what technology that's the benefits of technology these days is that we get to hear different perspectives and ultimately, you know, in the search of the best health practice or what have you, I think it's beneficial for everyone to kind of broaden the horizon a little bit

Katie Kay

and talking about health practices. I'm just so excited to dive into your business and what you're doing I just feel like it fits perfectly with what this podcast is all about. Integrating a specific wellness tool or multi modality and then also having that personal growth aspect on the side and connecting maybe more to the kind of the spiritual side and understanding yourself more, I just feel like those two things have to integrate if we want to create change in our life and grow as, as humans, and so I'm really excited just to dive in, let's just start with. For those of you that don't know, you tell us about your business and what you do.

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yeah, hello, everyone, my name is Andy Chan. And these days, if you go on the internet, and just search about anything fitness related, you can get an overwhelming amount of information out there. And I think a lot of listeners, and certainly a lot of my friends, and my clients will have trouble digesting and unpacking all these information. So when I introduce myself, I always tell people, my job as a coach, as an educator, as an author, now as a presenter, is to help others unpack all these information so that no one has to waste time incorporating practices that ultimately hurt their performance, but actually implement practices that gets their health to the most optimal point, because that's where we all strive to be. So I do personal training. I do group training, I do now webinars, workshops, and corporate workshops. So just about everything that you can imagine a fitness instructor would do.

Katie Kay

Totally Yeah. And I saw that on your website, this goal of optimal health and human performance, and we all want to strive to be our best and it kind of shines out when we're especially when we're moving when we're training or exercising, and especially when we have a specific goal, like weight loss, or we just want to improve our bodies in some way. And so it's just sounds like you've spent so much time in this whole area of training and understanding the body, and just your education. And you're just talking about you know, your business, and you're an author and everything that you're doing. How did you get into this? And like, as Have you always just been like loving that whole area? Or did it just spark your interest while you were in school? What was that process?

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yeah, I, well, funnily enough, my undergraduate degree was in accounting, and I, I've always thought I was gonna become an accountant, when I kind of go into the workforce. So I was in the US for 10 years. And after I graduated from college, I came back to Hong Kong and I had the chance to become a professional soccer player.

And like a lot of athletes growing up, you know, we aspire to become a professional athlete, um, who doesn't want to be one. And so I went on this trial. And I still remember, you know, we were going through practice, and we're doing agility drills. So for people who has no idea what agility agility drills are, basically, you set up cones on the floor, and you do all these flashy fancy moves, basically, to work on your coordination and agility and speed, etc. And while I was going through these drills, the fitness coach, he pulled me aside, and he was like, Hey, Andy, you know, when when other people they do a turn, they can't just change directions, quickly, as in, they tap, and then they just switch directions. When you do it. You like a robot, because you have your arms to decide you did like 180 Return all this to say, Why are you so rigid man. And, you know, that was an epiphany. Because it turns out what I've been doing inside the gym did not translate a better performance outside the gym, on the fields for soccer, because the way I was training, I was training my body to be rigid, so that I can be bulky. And, you know, I was disheartened. Because what that means is, in the elite athletics world, if you're just like, half a second slower than everyone else, you're gonna lose a goal or unit missed opportunity. So that's kind of when I started going into this fitness industry, I did some courses, just to understand training better, because I'm sure there has to be different ways of training other than the traditional way of bodybuilding training, which didn't fit my purpose and needs at the time, as I went into this fitness industry with this, why and kind of this passion to learn what's the best for athletic performance, I kept getting opportunities. And, and so one of the soul changes was me being in Thailand for Master Training Conference for power plate. And then I went out there and this was another life changing experience, because the trainers that they sent up our plate, the presenters, not only were they knowledgeable, they were presentable, meaning that charisma and they could just, you know, talk with with, with substance. And so that's kind of when I realized I have to go back to school if I want to take my career to the next step now because I have to be academically qualified. So I went back to school to get my Master's in exercise science, and then things have just evolved from there. I love the story. I think a lot of us can relate to being in school and having no idea what we want to do for the rest of our lives. And I definitely

Katie Kay

Took a few accounting classes myself. Yeah, I love that story. Because transitioning into something that you really love and becoming passionate and being curious about what's the best way that you can increase your athletic performance, a total difference from weight training in the gym, and then also the component of agility, what you're talking about imbalance in the body. And it's just so variable, depending on what activities you're doing, and then also what your goals are. So I can understand how you just found so much passion moving in that direction. And it takes a lot of courage to to go back to school and just invest yourself your time or money into a whole new direction. So I commend you for doing that. I do think we're all kind of trying to understand ourselves more and just connect more spiritually to ourselves. And I saw on your website and your bio, you having this Chinese medicine, integration into the training? How is that all integrated? And can you tell us a little bit about that?

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yeah, I'd love to. And the first I before I share about how they're connected, I'm not sure why I kind of brought them together. And it all actually stemmed from my my master's degree in exercise science, because within the master's degree in exercise science, we had to do a course on statistics. Because, you know, we have to read research, and we have to understand how research is conducted in order to better understand the research and why there is bias and floats, etc. And within the research project, we get to pick a topic of interest. And at the time, it was not long after I've seen the purple dots on Michael Phelps back in the Olympics. So there was this one Olympics that Michael Phelps was seeing with Kobe marks on his back, and there are these purple dots. And the athletic community was freaking out. Because, you know, people were like, What is this disgusting looking thoughts, you know, that's that hurt is breaking down the body. And I was just curious in looking into the efficacy or whether the modality is effective in reducing whatever it is to reduce because believe it or not, cupping is a modality that originated from China originated from Chinese medicine. Yet, as a person growing up in Hong Kong, who spent 10 years in the US, I didn't know much about Chinese medicine, because there was always this misconception that Chinese medicine is a myth, and it's mystical. And, you know, to to make it worse, no one was ever able to explain to me the tangible benefits of Chinese medicine other than the fact that it's good for you. And so, I forgot, yeah, I might as well just go into it and to examine the efficacy of cupping. So as I was looking into the research, as well as different websites, I found that there were mainly two perspectives one, the Western kind of human movement, science perspective. And second one, the Chinese medicine perspective. So if you look at the human movement, science prospective, research is focused on one, its emphasis is on one question, what is the effect of cupping on my soft tissue? In other words, if there's a Heejun, if there's restriction in that area, and my releasing this tension, am I getting greater flexibility, range of motion, etc. Now, when I get to Chinese medicine site is where it reinforced this idea that, you know, there's a NIC mine, it's kind of esoteric, and, and I even as a person with Chinese background, I did not understand the language that was used in Chinese medicine. So this is this, this is how it ties back to my business undergrad degree, because I realized, Oh, actually, you know, if you go on Amazon, there isn't a book out there that is written for athletes from the Chinese medicine perspective. And so that sparked an interest, I was like, oh, I need to look into it. Because there's no better person than me, honestly, to kind of examine this topic because I was educated in the US. So understand how people in space think we'd like to think in black and white terms, nothing in the middle, please just tell me what it is. And then I grew up in Hong Kong. So that's kind of how the idea of Spark part sparked about in 2017 18 ish. And I started looking into it. I work with different types of medicine practitioners. And then here's the key point, I found that Chinese medicine is based on reasoning a lot and logic, because back then they didn't have any scientific equipment. And so I thought the logic made a lot of sense. And hence, I now incorporate it into my daily practice, and my training philosophy. Hmm,

Katie Kay

yeah. So tell us how do you how does that integrate into it?

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yeah. So basically, I look at three areas so far, everyone that comes in, that works with me, their diet, the way they manage their emotions and the way they train and in the diet. I'm not a dietitian, but I can tell them principles and I can always refer out if it is necessary, but basically the difference in the approach of diet is in the West. You know, people will talk about the micro macronutrients, as if We're all biochemist, right? You know, people go in and counted calories. And they assume that all proteins are the same. Effectively, right? If you get your protein in, it's fine. But in the Chinese western side, we know that food is more than just sustenance of life, because it alters our energy in different ways. And the example being you know, today, if you're sitting by the beach, you have the choice of coconut water and hot chocolate. Katie, what would you choose?

Katie Kay

Coconut water, for? Sure.

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Of course, I think that's the intuitive choice. And in Chinese medicine, they will say that coconut water has a cooling property, which means that it has an effect of cooling the body down, which is what, what the place the location of those coconuts need, because usually it is in the tropical area. So then we have to eat foods that matches our body type and our body bodies condition at the time. So that's kind of the overall principle of diet. And then emotions, you know, obviously, nowadays, we know from from the wellness movement that most people are overstimulated, we're always up regulated, we're always stressed. So you know, are we matching that and to just come down a little bit effectively. And then in the training is were obviously the bread and butter of my practices, because we have to make sure that we are not restricted by the way we train. And that's why I really liked the name of the podcast, obviously, body breaking free, because I think a lot of times, we are limiting what our bodies can do, inadvertently by training in the wrong way. So three things.

Katie Kay

I'm glad that you incorporate all three of those things in your business, I just, I think especially that emotions part can get so missed. And, and so important to I mean, it's, you know, we live our life by our emotions and our thoughts in our belief systems. And so of course, talking about the physical body and your training, like all of that's going to be incorporated. And so I want to go into that a little bit deeper that stress management, like, oh, man, we're all stressed, right? There's something we all need to work on. And when just from my own learning, understanding the nervous system and the fight or flight response, and it can live at a chronic level where you're in this fight or flight response on a daily basis, and that can influence your body in so many different ways. So how do you manage that with your clients? And how do you approach that stress management?

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Well, first of all, I think the fight or flight it's, it's, it's an inflammatory response, which means that it is meant for our body to be rigid, because we are to either fight a predator or to flee from it. And this is usually a good opportunity for me to explain the Yin Yang philosophy. Because I think that there's this misconception, again, in defending philosophy that it is always spiritual. But in fact, it is very functional as well, because we're literally just talking about, you know, contradictory forces. And in this case, if we think about stress, if we think about the fight or flight as kind of the Yang, the more aggressive energy giving state, then there's the opposite, which is the person with that nervous system response or the rest and digest response. And for me, for my clients, the simple question is, if you look at your daily life, what is the ratio? All right, and, and because all this behavioral change all the stress management, all the dietary changes, I think it all stems from us being aware of our daily habits, because believe it or not, I think we underestimate, kind of the amount of time we spend in this fight or flight, because not only do we get triggered by actual life threatening situations, but we also get triggered by non life threatening situations like social media, like conversation with friends, and all the other stuff that we get triggered by so first off, when it comes to stress management, I want my clients to be aware. And then second, my other principle is, it's all about small things that we do throughout the day. So obviously, I think we can spend an hour in meditation every single morning, that'd be ideal, or we can find time to just practice our work on our breathing. But for me, it's all about us finding bits here and there. So in Hong Kong, we all live a busy lifestyle, because it is a big city. And so I've this tip that you know when we're waiting for elevator before a meal, whenever you have free time, just standard, put your phone down and work on your breathing and just do some deep breaths. And the current feedback that I've got is Oh, that is practical. And it works. Because in their head doesn't have their, their needs not to be something fancy, I believe for us to manage our stress. Sometimes you just need to put away that distraction and just take long, sustained breaths and that could go a long way.

Katie Kay

Yeah, it makes me think about this idea of joy. Just the simplicity of awareness and breath and how we love to overcomplicate it, I think a lot about what really makes somebody want to radically change their life. Because I have felt that in my life, and it's not like anything, is epically going wrong, there's no you know, big red flags, but I hold it inside, or there's some sort of fear, or anxiety, or maybe even trauma that's just making me feel like I need to run away from you know, whatever it is like, and they just get stuck in it. And so that concept, like when somebody's there, and they're suddenly stuck in that place, this radical change, sometimes we're looking for this big kind of big thing that happened, like, I quit my job, which I have, I did, over like, you know, like something like radically changing on an external on the outside, which, yes, like that can change your life. But what I have found is I can quit my job. And then the honeymoon phase is over, and I'm still left with myself, I still have to deal with whatever is internal, whatever I'm really dealing with. And so when I look at it from that perspective, it's like, oh, my gosh, if I would have years ago, brought in the simplicity of awareness, and the simplicity of 10 minute meditation, or you no longer I mean, I've built up my practice, because I crave it now. Like, I love it, I just, I need it. Yeah, I just I make that point. Because I think you're just spot on, you're just hitting it right on the head, when you're talking about, we don't have to make it this big thing. Like, it's like, when you can come back to your breath. And like if you're working and you're stressed, and you're in the zone, and then you know, I do that, like I'm working really hard. I'm like on my computer, I'm Yeah. And then like an hour later, I still feel the buzz of nervous system being in that heightened state. And I have to remember that I can, you know, I can pause, if I take a few breaths, I've come back into that parasympathetic, and my digestive system can release and I can enjoy the nutrients of the food that I just ate. And it's all interrelated.

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

You're absolutely right. And on this topic of food, that's why a priority that I certainly have for myself is right before a meal, I try not to look at the phone. Because as you said, when we are pounding on a computer working, we're when we're in the zone, you know, our digestive system shuts off a little bit because it wants to utilize resources to or wants to transport the blood circulation to other areas, so that we can actually get ready for fight or flight. And as a result, if I just kind of go on my computer and get all stressed out and then eat, you know, it doesn't matter how clean up the food or doesn't matter which superfood we're consuming, we're not going to fully utilize and extract the nutrients. So I think that's a great point that you brought out and, and the interconnectors interconnectedness is definitely true.

Katie Kay

Yeah, it's interesting that you brought up that point, because I just recently heard that right. After you eat a meal, you need at least 20 minutes of just non activity of just even mental like, Just give yourself a little break so that those nutrients can fully digest in your body. And oh my gosh, like, I think, oh, I don't got 20 minutes to chill out, you know, then not do anything. But it's like, if you want to radically change your life, give yourself 20 minutes. Like if you can't find 20 minutes to breathe and be with yourself. Like maybe that's one point that you can look at and be like, what's going on here? Like why can I sit with myself and let the like amazingness of this meal, fully digested my system and and give me all the nutrients that I that I can and deserve this moment? So yeah, I just I love how you bringing up that whole concept.

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yeah, and if we go deeper, I think we're all victims of this modern day, oh, let's not waste time. And let's kind of pursue our best and find the best versions of ourselves. While the idea is noble, but I do think that sometimes the best way to move forward stick is to take a step back. Because if you don't recharge you, you never have the energy to continue. So you now know that it is okay to just kind of sit there and do nothing. And in fact, one of the key points that I try to embrace is to embrace boredom, because it does a lot more than you think it does. And then just kind of avoid the temptation of filling your head with a lot of distractions.

Katie Kay

Hmm, tell us a little bit more about that boredom. Do you think that's a good thing to have in our life? Yeah, well,

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

I can tell you when I was writing to balance, my latest book, it took three years to write and, and the first year and a half was difficult, because I, you know, I work 100 sessions a month. So I'll do six to seven sessions a day, sometimes sometimes eight. And it was hard for me to kind of get in the zone. Because I think a lot of us we are procrastinators, like you sit down, and you take forever to warm up, and then 45 minutes is gone. And then I have to work again. And so I came across this book, it's called Deep Work by Cal Newport. And, and then there are what he was saying is deep work fulfills us, meaning that it gives meaning to life. And while I might not necessarily go that far, in my life, but I see his point in that we have to concentrate in order to produce something great. And that will give us a sense of purpose. And what are you saying is essentially nowadays we have love decision fatigue, and, and so in, the best way to stay focus is to get rid of all the distractions. And one of the rules that he gave was to embrace boredom. Because you know, all the ideas for example, I don't know how you got started with the podcast, Katie. But sometimes, when we just daydream, good things come to us, like, I'm sure you then you, when you plan a podcast, sometimes you have to sit there and actually brainstorm. And that comes from you being bored, bored in quotation because you can actually sit there and drink. And sometimes when we get so caught up in filling our minds with entertainment, we lose that creativity. And so for me, boredom, is just a space where I'm allowing myself to kind of wander around. And certainly when I was writing a book, I adopted my practice to Okay, I'm going to focus for 20 minutes. And now just be bored for five minutes. And in those five minutes, I just sit there. And as you will my book in the park, because I liked the nature and I was just facing three walls next to me with no Wi Fi. And I'm sure people walk by, they'll be like, you know, was sky just sitting there, because I wasn't doing anything. I was just sitting there being bored. But it was life changing. I tell you, I mean, it would look silly on the outside, but it was life changing, because it allowed me to recover. And then ideas would keep coming.

Katie Kay

Oh, yeah, I love that. I I recently, I've just been really trying to surrender and let go more and let go of the control and the busy. And it's the hardest thing I've ever done just trying to sit still and what you're talking about being bored. And that's why I ask and it's a skill, it's a skill to quiet your mind or just, you know, notice your thoughts and see it come through? And do you think that that is when we really tap into the flow of creative intelligence and the there's this energy force of the universe. And if we can let go of our own busyness and our especially in the overthinking which I am just an A student at overthinking all the time. I've realized that I've made much bigger leaps and bounds in my life. Just yeah, bringing on board and bringing and letting go. This kind of attaches on to my next question and what you were talking about the third thing, you're talking about diet, emotions and training. So in that training aspect, how do we bring in kind of both of those elements of that letting go and not having so much control wrapped up in our training, like you were talking about not restricting and bringing in more freedom, whenever I have had a goal with my body, or I've been in the gym and you know, working really hard on whatever it is like trying to feel more in shape, mountain biking, skiing, whatever it is, I get so caught up in the numbers and the obsessiveness. And that is just something that I don't want to be caught up and I don't want it to be wrapped up in control. And I think it's just a pattern of mine. It's just something I've always kind of fallen back on. So how do you help our clients kind of bring in that balance? Of yeah, there's an aspect of control, but also that aspect of freedom.

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yeah, I think if we just look into history a little bit, I think throughout the past 2000 3000 years, if you look at ancient cultures and the way that people exercise, certainly in Chinese medicine, people will have talked about the radiant system, how the body is interconnected. So they will do movements that works the entire body. And certainly it's the same in yoga and in other ancient ancient cultures where the emphasis of training was on elegance and grace, right? If you look at dance, if you look at Qigong, if you look at all these different types of workouts, it was basically we We had this intuitive search for elegance, like you, when you see someone performance age, you just say, Wow, that was that was a great move because they were in sync. Yet, in the past 1020 years, ever since bodybuilding came along, there was this idea that gym coaches are all about form, you know, are you doing the squat correctly? And people argue about one two degrees of movement, are you doing the deadlift correctly. But the problem is, yes, I must say I must declare there is an optimal way to lift really heavy weight. And there's there's definitely a way to lift heavy weights that minimizes risk of injury. Yet, if you look at our human body and the way we live, you know, you have to pay up groceries in all different types of positions, you have to get in the car in different leg positions, you're not in perfect squat when you get into a chair. And as such, I think we have to realize that you just kind of bound yourself to this whole after being perfect form, then you only strong in that position. And it reinforces a habit. Whereas if you focus on the elegance, and we focus on on, on having grace in your movements, I think that will translate to healthier lifestyle. And so whenever I train my clients, we are, we aren't a structured meaning today, let's say I am to do a lunch. So I stepped forward out to silent or to back lunch, sometimes it's they don't have to always go forward, right, they have the freedom to go in whichever direction they want. But obviously, there are foundations that meaning that their knees has to be aligned so that they their knees are in a good position. But other than that, it's for me, it's about creative, free freedom. And they have to work coordination and synchronization, elegance and flow.

Katie Kay

Yeah, so there's an element of we just said that, that doesn't have to be so restrictive. Like we think of it being the all these rules of perfect for perfect way to do it. And I can relate to that, as a yoga teacher, I just took a trauma informed yoga class, and Jen Solomon, she's a goddess, she's amazing teacher. And she was like, Well, what's gonna happen if your knee is one inch over your toes, like, what's gonna happen if you know you're like cave, you're like, knees caving in and warrior two, and it's like, yeah, it's not the end of the world, right, and all of our bodies are different. And maybe your knee is caving in, because you had a hip injury. And when you pull your knee back into, you know, perfect, quote, unquote, alignment, that feels really painful, and that doesn't feel good in your body. And that concept, blew my mind a little bit. And I was like, oh, man, like that guy is like, makes so much sense. And also gives us more freedom just to like be ourselves, be ourselves in whatever body we have in this moment. So do you think that that also translates in the mindset aspect of the training? Do you feel like, okay, so you have this kind of freedom of movement? But also, do you see your clients kind of grasping under that control of like, I need to do this, this and this? And does that become like overwhelming and kind of an obsessive pattern? And if that if you do you see that? How do you kind of address that?

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yeah, obviously, I think in a training session, there are things that we would typically do and if they are obsess about the routines, we have, or we should have a kind of aggressive session, I have no problems with that, the problem I usually have is what they do outside of training. Because if we circle back to that union philosophy, if we circle back to stress management, if we circle back to some diagnosis, some response, it is fine if we go hard, but my question will be, like, are you recovering? Because we know the golden rule of training is it all depends on the body's ability to tolerate, to recover from and to adapt to stress. And obviously in training, this will be referring to physical stress, but certainly could be applied to mental stress as well. And the biggest problem that I see on this related us of training and mental wellness, it's that people are rigid and that I should rephrase they come in and they'll say I feel tight. I think that will be kind of the the majority that I they come in to feel tight and achy today and that's okay no pain no gain. I'm we're gonna have a good session and let's push through. And this is where I usually sometimes kind of hit the brakes a little bit because then I tell them you being sore all the time you being rigid. You've been titled time it's actually an indicator. It's indicative of the fact that you You are in fight or flight all the time. So it's more sometimes it's more of a mental thing than it is a physical thing. And I'm not sure if that resonates with you. But things sometimes we we look at a rigid body and we think, Oh, they should be doing more stretching. No, they should actually be managing their, their mental health and their mental well being so that they're not just so caught up in life all the time. So, yeah, sorry, I'm not sure if that answers your questions.

Katie Kay

Oh, that does? Yeah. And I'm sure it's just like per client, right? Like, trying to kind of understand them and, and like mentally, physically, or all kinds of different aspects. But yeah, you answer that perfectly. I just think that that's great that you're looking at all of these different components, and bringing the whole person into balance. And that leads me into your amazing book dynamic balance. Can you tell us about the book and about learning about your book, kind of what's that layout look like?

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yeah, the book is first is the first of its kind, because we look into the intersection of TCM and fitness. But I can tell you that our book focuses on the recovery aspect of training, because if you look at a lot of fitness books is always on training, but not enough on recovery. And what we ought to do. And what we did was we looked at the aspect of recovery from Chinese medicine perspective, because, you know, in Chinese medicine, essentially, they are interested in what we in the West called homeostasis in that balanced state where we perform best, but it's just that you think if you think about all these ancient guys, 4000 years ago, they would not have the laboratory experiment, equipment, to look at ones pH, blood sugar level, glucose, whatever, things that we look at these days. And so they have a subset of language, which was chi blood in five elements to explain kind of the worlds. But you know, going back to my why I think it was, it's not very explained, it's not explained in a very tangible manner. And so I explain in a very concise manner, with the current offerings. So you know, that your bounds, we want to educate readers without heart transplants, and knowledge, to look into his philosophy more so that they can understand the perspective on diet, they can understand perspective on managing your emotions, and certainly training as well. And eyebrows is filled with Practical Guide, because there are a lot of surveys and a lot of questionnaires for people to fill out. Because we want to make the book more interactive, rather than the general kind of book that just keeps throwing information at you. And that's the exact opposite of what we want to do.

Katie Kay

So it's a unique lens through Chinese medicine, to look at your training or look at your physical activity, and then kind of evaluate how you can come back into balance.

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yep, yep. So for example, right? In so the book is divided into a couple parts. And then the first part is on the essentialism as languages where we break down ying yang, as as, as I alluded to earlier, I think a lot of times when when we think of these concepts, we have to understand the culture. Because I think sometimes we just tell people what she is, people will not have an idea of what it is. But if you tell them well, actually, chi is an important part of our culture, because it is included in every single word with steam or air in it, then it will make a lot more sense. And such in the beginning of the book, we go into more the cultural aspect. So we don't just tell you kind of what this is, but the historical and cultural meaning behind the terms, so you can piece it together. And then there's a questionnaire where you figure out your current body state, because in Chinese medicine, there are kind of eight archetypes that you fall under. And depending on your constitution, you would eat certain foods that kind of matches your constitution. So with that idea in mind, you're gonna go into the diet to see why they're eating according to what you're supposed to, you're gonna go in your emotion side to see what the Chinese had to say about managing our emotions. And then the training, which is all about training, total body movement and how through the concept of meridians and training for elegance, we develop the best training methodologies and routines.

Katie Kay

Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to read that. I just like I get so excited about learning different perspectives and lenses. Especially you know, these bigger topics like diet, like eating foods, like we do it every day, right? And fitness and being able to kind of look at it through a more niche lens. I think is just like a such a cool opportunity. I mean, I say on the podcast, each shift in perspective, can really change everything like one perspective shift can make you look at something completely different. And even when you were just talking about earlier about the diet And in America, we look at our macros and micro micronutrients. very black and white. I mean, that's what I've known right when I went to my nutritionist at and I lost weight, it was very, it was just based on it was based on percentages and counting calories. And and, uh, you know, it wasn't something that I consistent I could sustain and I didn't want to because that kind of sucked my time and energy into that one thing which I, I didn't feel like my full self wanted to be in that. But yeah, I think like and then you were talking about the way you're looking at it through the Chinese medicine lens of not all proteins are equal. And it just like sparks my curiosity, because I'm like, Oh, what a you know, what is he talking about? And I love living in the gray zone like that's, well maybe love is a strong word, I just live in the gray zone. And yeah, it's like actually gives me a lot more areas of perspective where I can then decide like, what is gonna serve me best. And so I'm just really excited to read it and look at kind of this new lens of approaching my body and diet.

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yeah, and I can go into it just a little bit more to give the readers a little sneak peek of what to elaborate further on what we talked about in terms of kind of the therapeutic effects of diet and protein, for example, right? Yeah, please, because there's so so many different proteins available, you got your chicken, beef, pork, and you've got your seafood and let's just take beef and seafood, for example. Again, we have well to explain food, I need to go over to essential concept, which is in which we now know are the two forces the contradictory, yet complementary forces. And then there's the word Qi. Now, Qi essentially, like every other terms, Chinese medicine, there are always two meanings to it. Number one is the functional meaning. And second is the philosophical meaning. So the first function meaning of chi is energy. So as the earth energy currency of the body, instead of using ATP, people use chi. Now, the second part is the philosophical meaning chi is invisible, because it is also a more of a philosophy that there's this energy that drives the body forward. And it is this philosophical side that people have their have difficulty kind of grasping. But now we know that there are always two components to the term. So it's the same within Yang five elements and etc, etc. And so, if we apply the concept of a Yang Yang and chi, you will have chi you have energy that is in in nature, which is more Tom, and then you will have energy that is more aggressive in nature, by nature. And if we look at protein, if we think of beef, then we'll know beef is hotter in nature, or is more Yang in nature, which means that after you have beef, it is believed that it will do circulation, and you feel hotter, in a way. But then if you look at things like seafood, you know, after you have, let's say, certain shellfish, then it's supposed to calm you down, it's more of an in an energy. So right then if you have a lot of seafood, then it is believed that it's not good free energy. And if you have so much beef or so much chicken, certainly it is reflected because having oily skin having an acne breakout, it's a sign that the body's in too much Yang, and there's an excessive amount of nutrients. Not necessarily good. It could be good nutrients, but there's just too much of it. And you're having trouble digesting. That's why you having acne breakout. And, and so that's kind of that's kind of the areas that we look into. So why they're the foods that you're eating, match the Constitution, because ultimately, it all depends on whether your current state is in or Yeah, meaning are you kind of lacking energy, or are you having an excessive amount of it. Because if you're lacking then sure you're going to, you're going to eat foods that gives you energy, but if you're lacking ready, you're not going to eat foods that calm you down, because that's just going to exacerbate current problems. So that's kind of the lens that we go into in dire balance.

Katie Kay

Yeah, and I can see how that awareness aspect of noticing where you are at now and maybe you're kind of swinging I think of like a pendulum of maybe or higher up on one side, you're containing a lot of heat a lot of energy. And so knowing that being aware of it kind of swings you like you can bring that pendulum back into center by bringing more cooling like maybe eating fish or bringing some of those aspects into your diet. Yeah, can kind of see how it all interrelates

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yeah, and and, and elaborate further. One of the key concepts that we want to bring out is we want to eat local food, because I think the bite by nature, nature gives us the food that we should eat. And and the one thing that we didn't do is to give a one size fit all solution, as in this is the Chinese way of eating no, because the Chinese medicine way of eating, it's the principle that we should eat according to the current season, the current climate and the location that you're in. For example, from a honeymoon two years ago, I was in Scandinavia. And I was there in December, because we wanted to see the northern lights. And I live in Hong Kong, and in Hong Kong, I had never even snows. And so obviously, the diet is different, because the soil is different. And the cancel diet has a lot more vegetables in it. But first of all, there's not a realistic kind of expectation with regard to Scandinavia, because it's like, minus 30 degrees, and it was so cold. And you obviously had to eat or meat and carbs just to keep yourself warm. So all that to say, in our diet should always be depending on our context, and, and if someone is offering a one size fits all solution, then you really should think whether that actually fits you. Because ultimately, it's your body. And there's no one else with better knowledge than yourself.

Katie Kay

Yeah, it reminds me of reminds me of Ayurveda a little bit, I don't know if you've heard of, yeah. And I like both like what you're talking about, I like AI or VEDA, just knowing that it isn't a one size fits all. And it is dependent on the season, the different transitions of the seasons, time a year. And it just makes more sense logically in my brain, that of course, all of this is interrelated. And thank God, we have some modalities where, like it's already laid out for us, like the knowledge is there. And like, how powerful is that we're able to go towards something that is fluid and fluid, and has more creativity and more freedom. And what you're just saying, like, understand yourself more like that's so valuable. And you deserve to like you do is deserve to honor your body in that way. And so it just like, it's exciting that we have these things available, and you don't have to fit into the status quo anymore. You don't have to fit into this one size fits all. And I think we're kind of coming out of that generation where we all kind of had to fit this ideal and the trend of authenticity and the trend of being unique. And it's beautiful. Like I love it. And it's necessary, like we need that in the our approach to our body approach to our life. So it's very exciting that you're a that you have this able to lay it out for us. So we can learn more about ourselves in, like, what do we need it? Like? What are some things that we can change that really will make that radical difference in our approach to our body and health?

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yeah, and ultimately, it is the small changes that we incorporate, I don't say small but seemingly small and short in duration that we incorporate throughout the day. I think that's that's kind of one one point I want to reiterate over and over and over again, just because, you know, sometimes life changing decisions they compounds. And, you know, we all like to have this epiphany or we look at all these promotional materials where the author or the content creator always had this epiphany. Wow, so this happened, and my life was changed. No, I think it is usually a result of them sticking to practice for a while. And know that changes do take a while to implement. Because, you know, if we go back to this mental wellbeing topic, I'm just gonna be vulnerable here. And I used to have anxiety disorder for 12 years, 13 years, and I was on prescription because it was so bad. And I had insomnia. And you know, when I was young, because I I will come back to Hong Kong during the summer. So we will do anything from acupuncture to quassia to chi gong to Taoism, and then just just different things that my parents were desperate to say leads to obviously psychiatrists when I went I went back to the US and, and so what I've learned in recent years is well, first of all, I now I'm prescription free and and I can sleep at night and and that's a result of just me being aware of kind of the stresses because I think I I can relate everyone who's who has had and who has anxiety problems, and sometimes it feels like your mind just cannot settle down. But that could be a result of what we do during the day to magnify that problem. So and instead of just thinking about your mental health, I would encourage you to think about your diet and your training as well because believe it or not, because they're interconnected. Just like how when we look at diet, we should look at our mental well being when we look at our mental well being we should look at our diet and our train as well, and, and to anyone listening out there who is struggling with mental health, mental well being know that you can't just forget one dimension of this diamond called Health and Human Performance.

Katie Kay

I'm so glad that you shared that. Because I just I do think it's so common. I mean, the statistics, I think I heard one in six people with depression. And then it's more with people with anxiety, and I've struggled with that in my life and also been on medication and still on medication, I think it's important to bring that into the, what we're talking about, like training, like the training the body and the physical activity. And I don't think it's talked about enough, I think a lot of the time, we're really focused on performance and accomplishing and looking a certain way, what you said, I think it is so significant about the small changes, is, it's not, you know, sexy, or, you know, fun and fancy to be like, it takes a tiny little change. And every day, you know, those little things, and even just changing one thought at a time, oh, my gosh, I just like I think about my own struggles. And, like, some days, it was just like putting one foot in front of the other at the beginning. You know, it was, it wasn't really been able to function properly. But like getting myself out of bed and even like making it to the gym, that thought process, like gave me so much anxiety that it was like I talked to my therapist, and it was like, okay, Katie, we're gonna run through this and like, what are you going to do? Okay, I'm gonna wake up, and I'm gonna, you know, put my feet on the floor, and I'm gonna put my gym clothes on, and I'm gonna walk out the door, and then I'm going to get on my bike. And I was so embarrassed talking to my therapist about how am I going to make it to the gym so I can move my body and I can get that serotonin to feel better. But it for me at the beginning, it was just one step at a time. And I just want other people to know that, like, even if you're not in that place where you're feeling that and men struggle, it is a good reminder, like, even if we're all you know, feeling good, or on top of our game, it's like, I have so much gratitude now that I can really be like, Oh my gosh, like, I got three things done today. And they were pretty epic. And I can be really gratified to have a lot of gratitude that I'm in a good place where I can move forward in this way. And it's just like a good perspective, right? It's a good perspective, and especially when we're talking about training the physical body, and we're in that performance, and even get into that perfectionism mentality, kind of being able to take a step back and see a bigger perspective, maybe even a more compassionate perspective can make a big difference. And that can be the little change, you know, that can be the small change that you bring into your transformation. So thank you for bringing all of that up.

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yeah, and then I would even go as far as saying, I might be controversial, okay. But I might even go as far as saying, it's these anxiety problems that makes you appreciate life more after you overcome them. And I can tell you will overcome them. And, and sometimes it just, you just come off as more authentic, because you can relate to people better, and you appreciate life more, because now you realize you're not dragged down by all those negative emotions. So even if you're in that current state now, you know, just just note that, you know, time will pass and you'll be better in the future. And as long as you kind of don't lose hope, and you just work towards it. Just be patient. And I know that's probably the hardest advice and that's almost a useless advice be patient guys. What just another another way to look at is just hang in there and promise I'm not crying. It's just those and I just, hey, it worked out perfect. Just be patient and you know, just do small things there. It will get better and life will be great. In the in the in the near future.

Katie Kay

Yeah, I think it is a little controversial. Like I've I've definitely said that before that our struggles can be viewed as our gifts. And it's not the best top I mean, not the most inviting topic because somebody that's you know, dealing with physical pain or dealing with an illness. That's a really hard place to be at and I know that when I've been in those dark times, there's no way in hell I would think that was a gift, you know, but now having perspective i i see it and This might be helpful. I don't have all the answers and nor should I have all the answers. And if I think that this struggle isn't meant to be, who am I to determine what is to happen and what is not to happen, and there might be a bigger plan, there might be whatever word you want to say, you know, universe or energy or whatever that might might kind of be leading you down a direction, that is where you really need to be going. And sometimes our struggles are literally a force of nature, pushing us in that direction, because our own control ourselves aren't willing to be going, you know, wherever we need to go. So I think when I think about the whole struggle as a gift concept, I can kind of surrender to the fact that, yeah, I don't have to know everything, I don't have the answers. And I certainly don't have to have my own strength, all the time to know exactly what's supposed to happen exactly when it's supposed to happen. And surrendering to that and letting go sometimes that can be more compassionate way to look at it.

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

I think on this topic of just compassionate and acceptance and surrendering our chair, another struggle that I routinely struggle with, and I know a lot of my peers have with all of my colleagues, and that is our self image. And I think right now we kind of have this ideal body type, and especially as a personal fitness instructor, I think a lot of people will have this ideal physique that they they strive to have on Instagram, and but you know, there are a lot of limiting factors to that physique. And one is your genetics and to is, again, your mental health. Because, you know, for for someone like me with a history with anxiety, then then we know that perhaps I won't put on muscle as easily as others because I just get stressed out. And that is just me. Now, I could go against that. And by consuming a lot of protein and Nadi supplements, I could do whatever I want. I know I could do it. But it's just going against the nature of my personality and what my body is meant to be, which is, thankfully, I've a fast metabolism. So I eat a lot. And yet, when I get stressed, I just get skinny. And I know that to some people, it is a good quality to have. But I would say in my context, it is not because I hate being asked, Oh, you got skinny or what happens and used to be a fitness instructor? Are you so skinny? Especially when I got to do all these talks with 4050 people, they're like, Oh, who's this skinny guy? He's a finished chapter. So I'd say that for me, you know, the ones that understand that this is just who I am. And that there is no no, no point of fighting against it. And rather than me trying to fit the stereotype by just becoming jacked by eating all these protein and carbs that I cannot digest, why don't I just embrace who I am, and just kind of be the be my own self and just work on actually becoming a better instructor for other people, instead of just glorifying my own body image. And what I've discovered is that the message comes up a lot better. And as a result, more opportunities come by me being myself, by me being the skinny guy accepting that is who I am. And I hope this could encourage instructors, or anyone out there who's struggling with body image issues.

Katie Kay

The crazy thing is, is that nobody wants that person to go up on stage and be the most perfect model. And, you know, whatever that it like, ideal stereotype, jeez, like, haven't we seen that enough? Right? Like, I don't want to get advice from somebody that's perfect. Like, I want to get advice from somebody that's trying to be themselves, that's really embracing and uplifting and and feel empowered and who they really are and what their body is really meant to be. Like that's the person that I want to hear from so I'm I'm glad that you brought that up Andy and I just I think that we do get in our own way so much and that is just kind of that imposter syndrome and our limiting beliefs and that belief of just not feeling good enough. And yeah, like I think we all struggle with that and even you know people like us that are on a podcast and trying to help and like give wisdom or whatever we're trying to do here like of course we get those feelings and it just makes us more human and and helps us be more relatable. I think like that's a beautiful that you brought that up and yeah, like this podcast, like I know that body image can be at the top of the scale as far as feeling pressure or feeling judgment, feeling a certain kind of responsibility, and it can just create kind of this new negative cycle, this negative loop. And it's just so easy to get trapped up in it. Because society is telling us, this is what you need to look like. And oh my gosh, like the little girls and the boys that are on Instagram now when they're in junior high and, you know, have the phones and have easy access to be looking at and comparison, it's at our fingertips now continual looking at, okay, this is what I need to look like, yeah, we need to bring that up. And we need people like you, that are embracing who they really are. And really, that is the healthiest way that you can possibly live, you're living in balance according to your own body. And so if you're feeling comfortable, in that, you're just empowering people, you're just uplifting them by being just exactly who you are. That's a healthier form of who you are than pounding noun, protein shakes and killing your body at the gym. And I'm just glad that you're bringing this up, because you are a model of success. And the more that each of us can take on that responsibility, it is a is a responsibility for each of us to show the younger generation, that we're working through these insecurities. And we're honoring our bodies. And we're, you know, we're working towards loving exactly where we are, even if we, you know, we're working on it, even if it's, you know, we're not in this place where we love exactly how we look, at least you know, we're we're working on learning ourselves more, and being okay with it, and bringing in that love and compassion. And the more that we bring that into our own life, then that heart space is open, we can give that to others

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

previously said, and I would encourage you know, that on the topic of comparison, just a practical tip that people can implement to kind of slowly remove that distraction of comparison with non realistic expectations is for me, on Instagram, I used to like fitness posts, like as in the button liked a bunch because these great finished instructors, they will address a long post and sometimes they are expert level posts, because I'm like, wow, that's that's some great knowledge there. But the problem is, then Instagram thinks that I like looking at these posts. So then when I go to explore all these hot girls, I'm a dude. So all these hot girls, they like pop up with them basically not wearing anything and exaggerated chest and hips and and then you go into this negative spiral of just staying forever, because you know, who doesn't like to look of beautiful people. And so what I've started doing is to start I am follow a lot of fitness people and a stop liking these photographs, just because then it won't think that I liked looking at these things, thereby feeding my, my brain more of these images. And so, you know, to those who would like to look at Instagram less, because I know a lot of people have Instagram addiction problems. I know that's a strong word. But essentially, that's what it is. And you know, if you're struggling with it, and the first thing you could do is obviously you could always have a timer, but you could address the source of it, which is stopping them from giving you images that you love seeing because then you won't be stimulated by it. And then you won't kind of fall into that spiral.

Katie Kay

Yeah, that's great advice, social media. I mean, it's something that we just all need to be aware of more. And I just love your radical honesty. It's like, yeah, of course, like we get down that rabbit hole. And then we're like, oh, my gosh, I've been on this for an hour and the entertaining aspect of it. I think for me, at least being able to kind of come back to some of those deeper questions of it. I read. I was reading an Untethered Soul by Michael singer. And he had a question and there was like, it's a simple, very simple question is like, do you want to be happy or not? For some reason, that moment that I was reading that it took me aback, and I had to underline it with a pen and come back to it because I was like, well, am I gonna give up success? If I just choose that simplicity of I want to be happy? Am I gonna give up my specialness that I'm trying to create or trying to feel good enough? And I've kind of brought up all of these things within me. And not very often, are we able to really sit back and be like, what is it that I truly want for myself and my life? And if I'm really, you know, wanting this particular feeling, or I'm wanting to be in balance, or I'm wanting to spend less time and energy just consumed in the anxiety of trying to look better or trying to look you know, Buy the right clothes and look like this person or whatever it is like, you make that decision, and then that reflects back into your choices. So do I want to be happy? And, yes, it turns out, it turns out, I do want to be happy. And my happiness is affected by my body image and mainly comparison. And when I go on Instagram, I can get triggered by how other people look and be like, Oh, I wish, you know, I wish I had her legs, or I wish, you know, as a few pounds less and, and that's prohibiting those deeper purposes that I'm responsible now for, because I'm only one responsible for my own happiness. And once I took on that responsibility, now I it needs to be reflected back into the choices I make up my life. So if anybody's kind of caught up in an addiction, or a pattern that they feel, maybe it's something they could look at and shine a light on and maybe ask the question, was this negatively affecting my life? It's a good time to kind of go back to some, like, what do you really want, because if you want to, you know, look like that person, and that's your purpose in life, well, then that'll change your choices, right? If your purpose is something different, you know, I don't want to direct you in one way or the other. But it's just a good time to be able to reflect on some of those deeper questions. And that's like circles back to some of those social media topics, and what is it that you really are trying to get out of your time on social media?

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

And ultimately, I think this goes for those of us who are not just browsing, but those of us who are posting as well, because, you know, we just want to post like everyone else. I mean, if you look at all these influencers, they kind of have a similar vibe, because they will believe it or not, they copy each other. Because that's, I mean, they copy and then they change little things. And then they post and, and when I was writing this book, you know, in preparation for all my podcast appearances, I, again, I'm very vulnerable here. And I, I was contemplating what type of Persona do I want to have, right, as a new author, I get to build a persona, if you will. So, you know, I could be this expert, that I could pretend that I know all and Jasmine is great. And I am the best, and therefore she listened to me. Or it could be the guy, that's me, which is I don't have all the answers. But I would like to invite everyone to look into different perspectives more, it's fine, if I don't know it all, but at least I've made the effort to bridge the gap. And, and what I found was that, you know, throughout the pursuit, so diamonds was launch on in January, January 4 2022. And for the past, at the time of the recording, today, it is April, and for the past three months, over the past three months, somebody will have given me advice on what to post, oh, you should post this you should post that you should choose. And I tell them well, you know, I ultimately it doesn't really make me happy if I haven't amazing posts and 100 likes per post, because that's not how I measure the success of my work and my career and this product, certainly. And so I think it's a great point, I brought out why there's something makes us happy, Katie, because ultimately, we should ask that question in everything that we do, or else if we do it so that we can compete with our friends, if we do it just because we're competitive, just because we can't tolerate as not be as being inferior to others because we are not as accomplished, then I think we should look inside and really examine our motives in life, because that's only going to perpetuate into something really dark in the long run. Because you're going to realize everything is meaningless. And you're just part of the system. That and that's never a good place to go to.

Katie Kay

Yeah, I'm curious as a as a business owner, what how do you balance that especially as a trainer because I'm sure going out on social media like you're wanting to show your body doing certain activities? Like how did you balance that um, you know, I struggle with social media and the content that I'm putting out social media is like this trap of like wanting to get your content out there to more people but in order to do that, you got to have the you know, the catchy photo and the trend. What are they caught? rate conversion rate. Okay, like the clickbait that's the one of the you know, I can't like never remember that one. But yeah, clickbait and so how do you have you found a balance with that? Or is it just something that you continue to work on?

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yeah, I guess this hits back to the point of me, like some people will say, What do you mean you go on social media and try to figure out the algorithm. What can you Why can't you just skip social media and go off it completely? Well, I tell them, I still need to be on it in case people can reach out to me. And I still want to be connected to people because ultimately social media with its original intent is great. It's just, it just develop into something toxic. And so for me, first of all I have I started 20 minute timer on my Instagram, and I, I tried to use those 20 minutes to actually have conversations. And then those tournaments are usually if I go over fee a conversation, then it's for me, it is fine. But if I go over, because I'm just browsing, then that is not fine. And, and this act of bouncing, I it is a continual struggle that I can be honest with you. Because, you know, these days, we have on top of the 100 sessions that I do per month on top of the planning and the team that I have to lead. I have to plan after planned about promoting my book, and that is stressful, more stressful than I would imagine. And we have to understand why right? If you for those of us who are for those of you who are listening, if you think about us as a fitness instructor, essentially, when the lesson is done, I'm off. My work is literally within the hour that I get paid for. But as as a more like an office worker or as a marketer, or as an author. Now I kind of have a 24/7 job, because then I know it's just in the back of my mind that I have to think about constantly, how am I promoting my book, especially now I've had a little bit of success in in, in my book and in terms of sales and publicity. And so which also means that all my friends are rushing to give me advice, which means that every social conversation Oh, how sales and how you book. And so for me again, I go back to the point that I mentioned, which is to embrace boredom. And to understand that I could think about promoting my book for 20 hours a day. But does it make a difference? Not really. And I think that the law of diminishing returns is always true, someone should work so hard and pour a lot of effort. And as I cannot keep up, it's just too tiring. So for me, I had to figure out what really defines who I am. And what are the metrics I want to use. And for me, social media is just not not a metric, I guess I've brainwashed myself in a way that's just not not relevant and not important. And it really is liberating. Because then I'm actually focusing on even with this book, I, it was kind of a realization I had last month, my day job is still a presenter and a coach. So I'm still going to focus on the coaching aspect. And what I find is, I'm going to promote this book to best that I can. And if I don't do an amazing job, it's fine. Interestingly, it's been fine because I go at it with this mindset, which is always kind of weird, but cool. At the same time.

Katie Kay

I just think you're such a genuine person, Andy and I can tell that you really work on your own personal growth, and you're doing what you're saying you're doing, you're doing the work to be a balanced and genuine person and I you know, connecting with the people that you can, like, that's a great, that's great response. Because what you were saying it comes down to is people are on the other end, and you're there and you're like if I can just communicate and have a conversation and help people it's like you're you did what you needed to do in that 20 minutes. And so I have no question that you have, the people that are there following you is really people that are genuinely, you know, feel connected to your work and feel supported. So, you know, I just invite the listeners if Andy's work is resonating with you, like, connect with him, I'll put all of his information in the show notes, or I'm definitely going to read your book, Andy, I'm just so excited about it. And thank you for sharing, sharing all your vulnerabilities. And we just got like I was excited. We got into some fun topics. And before we leave, can you share your own daily wellness practice? What are what are some things that you include? Just to give us all a little bit more inspiration?

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yep. For me, the most important part? Well, the current emphasis is what I do first thing in the morning. That's my my current emphasis because there are things that I do but there are things that I put an emphasis too, because the reason why I say is I have a 19 month son, and 19 month old son and he wakes up at like 6am every day and it's an alarm. It's an alarm clock. And we know from all the sleep research out there currently that alarm clock essentially, there's no other animals on the planet that uses an alarm clock. And and as such, when that alarm clock sounds it's essentially it just triggered our sympathetic nervous system response. It's like oh by I have to wake up, and therefore it is a shock to the system. And, and for me, you know, I cannot snooze the alarm clock because it's my son. So it's just gonna cry louder. Which means that I wake up in the state of fight or flight. And I unfortunately don't say this about my son I'm fighting or fighting from him. But, but essentially that's, that's the response I get. And so the first thing I do is work on my breathing. Because I've to reverse that, because the last thing we that I want is just in 20 minutes, it gets tiring me out. And I could have a horrible day because I have a bad start. And so the first thing I do, I take a deep breath. And then I carry him or take him out to the kitchen, I have some water, and I just hydrate myself first to start the day. And then and that's how that's that's my current emphasis. And then I obviously have some organic foods for breakfast or real food, I should say. And then my wellness routine, I do breathing practice whenever I'm waiting for the elevator before my meals. And I yeah, I think it's just the small stuff that we mentioned throughout the episode. So breathing, I tried to embrace boredom. And then nothing fancy unfortunately,

Katie Kay

that gives us great inspiration, having that simple morning routine. And I feel like the more simple like, like, the more simplicity that we can bring into our wellness sometimes that's exactly what we need. And how can we find you? What do you want to share with? I mean, we talked about your book or like what would be the best way to connect with you, Andy? And I'll obviously put all that information in the show notes as well.

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Yep, they could find me on Instagram, teach you, Andy. And by the way, if you message me, Andy, I have my Chinese name on my Instagram. But no one calls me by my Chinese name other than my mom. It's just that I didn't use any chance because I want to search on Facebook that there are 3 million Andy chance on Facebook, because Tran is one of the most probably the last names. And obviously Andy is also very popular first name. So it's terrible combination, so much out there. But if you have any questions, feel free to message me, I promise I will get back I might not get back right away. Because I again, it's not my priority to be on social media, yet you are my priority if you if you message me. So I will get back. Just maybe not in an instant. And you can also go to my website for more information. I'd love to have a chat with you if you would like me to come to your company or just do a virtual event. So I mean, they're

Katie Kay

awesome, Andy, thank you all the way from Hong Kong like so awesome that we got to chat today. And like I said, I just think like you're such a genuine person. And listeners, you know, I know your time is precious. I think I can speak for both Andy and I that we just are so grateful that you show up and listen to these new perspectives and really opening up yourself and having the courage to, you know, want better and look at new things. And that's what life's all about. Right? We can experience all of these different ways that we can look at our body and health and diet and it was awesome.

Andy Tsz Chiu Chan

Thanks for having me, Katie.

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Episode Reference
Andy's Book: Dynamic-Balance by Andy Tsz Chui Chan
Book Reference: Deep Work by Cal Newport

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Book: Dynamic-Balance by Andy Chui Chan

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