53. The Power of Breathwork / Avi Greenberg

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Avi Greenberg is a Certified Wim Hof Instructor and functional breath-work coach. His work comes to life through group workshops and private training, all through the foundational element of breathing and techniques that redefine our relationship to stress. Today's episode we dive into the Wim Hof Method, breathwork benefits, nervous system, connecting to our purpose and SO MUCH MORE! Avi is so amazing and I can't wait for you to listen!

EPISODE REFERENCES:
NDSR
YOGA NIDRA
WIM HOF METHOD
INFRARED SAUNA
HEART COHERENCE BREATHING
LIGHTBOX
RED LIGHT THERAPY - LUMINOUS RED
LYMPHATIC DRAINAGE - GUA SHA
BOOK: SOUL OF MONEY

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Katie Graham

Hey guys and welcome back to another episode. Today we have Avi Greenberg. He is a certified Wim Hof instructor and functional breathwork coach. However first before we dive into the episode, the link to the newsletter is up. And Adam, it's in the show notes. So if you want updates on the podcast if you want some freebies or extra content, that's kind of where this hub is for our, our podcast community. So if you want to go to that next step up, that will be the place so I will have that link in the show notes. It is Katie Kay graham.com forward slash newsletter. Okay, so let's get into today's episode. I love learning about breathwork and Wim Hof. And I know Jeremy will Steen's episode that was the number four episode where he talks all about Wim Hof and really dives deep into that specific breathwork technique. That one did really well. So I feel like there's a lot of interest here. And then Avi just kind of takes us on this whole other journey of going through breathwork and its benefits, specifically decreasing stress and helping us align back into our true selves and what we really desire. His work comes to life through group workshops and private trainings, all through the foundational elements of breathing and techniques that redefine our relationship to stress. He is based in Salt Lake City, Utah, AVI is internationally recognized and has expanded his training under masters such as Casper Van del Mulan, and Brian Mackenzie, hopefully I didn't butcher either one of those names. Hopefully I nailed it. Let's get into today's episode, we talked about breathwork. And obvious, just like Spitfire he hit his mind is like give me a bit of a view. And such an awesome way. He's just really passionate about breath work and what he does, and there's so many good nuggets of information. So I just enjoy this episode, enjoy all of this amazing information that Avi gives us today. And we actually kind of intuitively led our discussion into a lot of just like really important concepts. So you know, standing up for yourself and, you know, being a people pleaser, and how can you take more responsibility for your life? And what is you know, it sucks, like feeling like you're hurting people and creating conflict. And so we address that. And we also address getting in the uncomfortable and especially with breathwork, like the Wim Hof and the ice bath and also infrared us infrared sauna. So different techniques to actually stimulate our nervous system. But also in real life, like how can we get in the uncomfortable to push us forward in the direction that we want? So just like some fun stuff, I'm really excited how that conversation led into that. And, and then some specific practices techniques. I have that information in the show notes. So there's a lot of juicy information. If there's something in the conversation that just spikes like something you notice you're like, Oh, that's interesting. I'll have all of that information in the show notes. And you can just check it out. I think that's important when listening to the podcast is it listening to your intuition, if something pops up, you're like, Oh, like that sounds really interesting. EPS, probably something that you need your body needs, your wellness needs, something that you are healing from, and that can really help expand. So I invite you this to listen to your intuition and let it guide you. But let's get into it. So sit back and take a listen.

Avi Greenberg

Thank you so much, Katie. I'm honored to be here.

Katie Graham

I'm really excited to dive into breathwork. So I found Avi, he was on an email and that came from one of the local yoga studios. And I saw that he was leading a Wim Hof workshop and being it's this thing, this trend that's coming up and people are getting really intrigued by it and wondering what it's all about. And then also Avi, I was looking at your website that you do a lot of different kinds of breathwork. So a lot of different kinds of breathwork techniques and workshops. So we might as well just like dig into all of those juiciness. Yeah. If you're good with that.

Avi Greenberg

Totally, totally good with that for sure. So let's just

Katie Graham

start with your work like maybe just give us a little background and what it is that you You do some of the breathwork techniques that you do? Yeah,

Avi Greenberg

yeah. So I teach mostly now, corporate and private breathwork sessions, like, I'm sort of like a mindfulness coach for companies and for people, I try to talk to someone first and figure out how they're feeling what's going on in their life, why maybe they came to me, or they were referred to me. And as I'm getting a sense for where they're at, I'm listening to their breathing, I'm asking them questions about their stress, their daily routines, their workouts, their sleeping habits. And then as I get to, like, kind of like the core of what's going on, and a lot of people are sort of like, shelled off, they don't really want to really delve into like, Hey, I'm really suffering from a lot of anxiety right now. I, I tried to get a feel for that. But I tried to get to the core of how I can potentially help them. And then I set up private sessions with them, where we'll do about an hour of breath work. And we'll talk about stress, we'll talk about you know, their workouts and things that maybe they can improve upon in their life or areas that there's room for growth maybe. And then I've also transitioned into doing a lot of corporate work. So I work with companies like Netflix, Klarna, American Eagle Outfitters, Samsung, Goldman Sachs, I've done sessions with, and I do weekly, monthly, and quarterly sessions with a lot of those companies. And I try to show these people within the companies that they can actually regulate their stress in their nervous system through really basic breathing techniques. Most people are pretty disconnected from their bodies in their breath, which I'm sure you hear a lot about in your podcast. So what I tried to do, and I try to help people with is connecting to their most basic and fundamental movement, which is their breathing, they breathe, Everyone breathes roughly 23 25,000 times per day, if it's something that you have no connection to, and you have no sense or feeling of, you're just kind of doing it in this autonomic way. And when it gets under control or not under control, you feel the shifts in your nervous system. So for someone, for example, that deals with like really high levels of stress, sometimes your anxiety can fuel your anxiety. So you feel your shortness of breath, and you feel yourself trying to pull a deeper breath in, but you're only breathing through your mouth and your upper chest. And it's exacerbating this anxiety response. So I work with people to try to slow their breathing down and try to getting them to feel their breath be this thing that's actually in their control. And once they can control their breathing, they can start to control their heart rate, their blood pressure, their thoughts, their feelings, their mood, their energy. And then it really becomes this really fun, interesting space to play with. So if you take someone on a really sort of unique deep breath journey, they can actually like restore neural pathways, they can get these creative thoughts, they can have psychedelic visions, they can feel really at ease, they can sort of drift between that awake and sleep state, that state that's called hypnagogia. That's really healing like going to get a massage or getting acupuncture and like you're kind of falling asleep, but you're kind of awake to and that states really good for you. There's a lot of really cool science that's coming out. Particularly everyone's really into Andrew Huberman, Dr. Andrew, human science right now he's a he's a neuroscientist from Stanford. And he talks about something called an SDR non sleep deep rest.

And that state is really healing there's actually a really cool article from Ink Magazine right now on the Google CEO utilizing yoga nidra to tap into that non sleep depressed state. And I as effect practitioner tried to have people that are really high stress type A and anxious like anxiety prone types, slow their breathing down, get their breathing into a relaxed state and push them or not push them, but gently guide them into that state where they're kind of awake kind of asleep, because, you know, if you're working with like a CEO type, and they're on 60 hours a week on like, serious work calls, serious meetings, serious, like numbers crunching, and then they have 1520 hours where they're not actually working, but they're supposed to be like working out or calming down or doing things to take care of themselves, but they're still like checking their emails, they're still texting, they're still trying to like be on calls and still like not actually going all the way into a full relaxation mode. They're gonna burn out ultimately, they're gonna get to a state where it's, it's they're not going to be able to control their thoughts, their feelings, their mood, unless they have really like disciplined approach to exercise or sleep. And a lot of times they don't because they're so used to burning the candle on both ends. They're so used to just being super productive, highly productive individuals. So what I do is I try to give them at least one hour a week where they can wind down and they can shut it off and they can go on autopilot like getting a massage or going for acupuncture. I Look at breathwork. And I look at breathing as a very ancient practice. And I think it's been around. And it has, I mean, people have been breathing since the beginning of human existence. And I try, I've tried to kind of take a little bit from here a little bit from there and sort of sprinkle it into what works. For me, this has been my bread and butter, though, like for the last three, four years, since the pandemic started, I also became a father in 2020. So I've, it's been really nice to work from home and do like four or five sessions in a day and work with people and like, really have impact in their day to day life, and be able to come upstairs afterwards and see, see my daughter and spend the afternoon with her go for a walk with her and not have to be sort of like on the road traveling and doing workshops in Chicago and Austin, New York. I mean, I still travel and I'm gonna hop on a plane tomorrow to go to New York to do some work. But for the most part, most of my work, I'd say 75% of it now is sitting in front of my laptop, leading anywhere from like two to six, seven breath sessions a day, or hopping on potential new client calls or hopping on corporate calls to try to talk about programming, and really trying to be like impactful in a virtual way, sort of like how I think a lot of people shifted. But the cool thing with breathwork, and a lot of this mindfulness work is it is transferable over zoom, like if you and I were to start breathing, and I'd say alright, Katie, let's take too slow, nasal inhales as calmly as you can. So let's do it together. Let's go all the way through the nose, big inhale. Let it go. Good. Let's do it one more time, all the way in through the nose. This time, slowest exhale, you got take your time, really let it fall. Good. Just take a moment here, we're not going to do any more breathing in terms of me guiding you, but just notice one to slow nasal breaths, extending the exhale is all it takes to give your nervous system a slight shift. So imagine if I did that with you for 45 minutes or an hour and you're lying down, you're you're home, you're under a blanket, you've got a pillow, you're really comfortable, I can actually take you one into a very calm, relaxed, safe state. But then also, if you're someone that has really good breathing fundamentals in place, we can start to go deeper and delve into something that's maybe a little bit more like psychedelic, or, you know, Wim Hof fee, or, you know, flow state like, and if I watch someone breathe long enough and get a feel for how they're breathing, I can slowly make you know, suggestions and say, Alright, Katie, let's pull a little bit slower this time, let's, let's let that Exhale, fall out even slower, like even make a little bit vocal noise from it like, and slowly you start to feel your nervous system shift, you start to feel your body drop into that, like next level of relaxation. And then all of a sudden, you know, we can really play from there.

Katie Graham

Oh, my gosh, biggest smile. Just from the two breaths, just from your passion. I mean, you I think our brains are very similar. It's like that, that that, that that, or you just have so much passion that we can just talk from one thing. Yeah, because it's all relevant, it's all important. And it all comes from your place of love. Because I can tell that you just want to bring in the most healing that you can do your clients into the businesses that you have helped. So that's just awesome. Like, I'm just so excited that you're so passionate, I'm gonna try and kind of put it in a pink bow, kind of like, bring it all together? Sure. So you have kind of a broader sense of breathwork what I'm kind of understanding from what you're saying is really the health of the nervous system. So I think this is something that we're, we're getting more and more knowledge about, and people are becoming more and more interested. But I guess when I say the health, I mean more about dealing with stress. So dealing with stress levels. And just for, you know, average Joe that doesn't know like me that doesn't know too much about all of these individual kind of more niche areas, you can go into the breathwork just the simple fact of understanding that this benefit of reducing stress is such a yin to the yang of our doo doo doo doo society and what you're talking about is like burning the candle at both ends. I just went to an Ayurveda teacher training last weekend and we were talking about this same thing like bringing the candlestick of both ends, like so common in our society and our Western culture. And this was an IRA that's called Raja. And it's kind of like this aggravated state, like we're always doing doing doing. And then there's a higher state of it's a sought Vic state where we feel at peace, we feel balanced. And that is the place. And then what I love about the site visit state is that it's a lot of joy, a lot of enjoyment of life. And I think we forget about that. And it's definitely something that needs to be like what I was just saying, like yin and yang, we need to balance out all of the doing with a, some sort of been, like just been. And I think one thing that is that I think we don't understand is that if we can incorporate the being just like calming the nervous system, getting into a place where we feel balanced and settled, that is actually going to make us more productive, like in the long run, like, we're gonna get closer to our desires closer to our goals, by bringing in both of these aspects. So yeah, anyway, I'm kind of like broadening out as like somebody that's listening that might not understand breathwork, or hasn't tried it yet. I just think like, there's so much benefit in the kind of the broader sense of it

Avi Greenberg

totally. And I would even say, to add, like another layer to what you're saying, because it does resonate with me is that we are taking the day to day sort of like toxic stress, like the work stress, the bills, the rent, the mortgages, the the family life stress, and that day to day, toxic stress is also draining our energy. And we're not actually tapping into like really good hormetic deep forms of like positive stress. So that's where the ice and the heat and like different things like that come into play. Or like, you know, for me, I've been training the last year and a half in jujitsu, and, you know, still doing my ice and sauna and all of that. And I'm bringing in high forms, like strong forms of stress. And that stress enables me to go into that calmer state even better, because I'm not only dealing with the day to day toxic stress, I've got bills I've got, you know, family stuff, I've got things like everyone else do, when I'm not taking on deeper forms of you stress, like that good hormetic stress, it's actually it's actually not helping me be more resilient to the day to day toxic stress. So by leaning into the higher, stronger forms of stress, because it was like what I told everyone at the workshop on Saturday, you know, it was funny, there was a lot of people, we went long, as you can see, I can talk a lot. So we were going long, it was from two to five, I start getting everyone ready for the ice baths around 430, which is not enough time because there was like 2021 people and only had one ice bath. So everyone had to go one at a time. There's a handful of people that were like, Hey, I've really got to head out at five. So can I go next. And the first two people were that they were basically like, I've got to leave right after this, I've got a dinner to get to I basically, you could tell they're already stressed, they're already like in a and the ideas from the workshop is to get them to relax in a really long, long breathwork session, like get them into a really euphoric sort of bubbly, relaxed state. But now we've gone outside, they're looking at the ice bath or thinking about all the dinners plans, they have all the things they have to do after this the stuff they got to pick up. So they go to get in the ice bath. And the first three people have really like kind of rough, rough goes, they were able to calm themselves down through breathing and relaxing through their breath. But I would argue and I actually told the group this I go hey, like if you have something to do after this and it's stressing you out or like you're thinking about it, I can guarantee you the moment you get into that ice bath, nothing is going to matter but you being in that ice bath. And it's the same with jitsu if I'm upset about an argument my wife and I had and I go to jujitsu, I can promise you and that 230 pound guy is lying on top of me trying to strangle me. That argument we had over something stupid like who drank the last Topo Chico is not going to matter. So these higher forms of stress like the ice bath, the jujitsu, the sauna, those things actually help you tap into something that's a lot deeper and more healing. The low level day to day toxic stress the things you know that we're talking about the burning the candle at both ends, and not to say that those things can't be high level or important. The problem is is that they are not acute, they are not finite, they're it's infinite. You're never going to not worry about how much money you make you're never not going to worry not worry about like do Add stuff that stuff as it lingers, and it bleeds you for days, weeks, months years, that's when you start to run into like a lot of the serious chronic health issues like the autoimmune disease, the anxiety, the panic attacks, the the you know, binge eating the the poor sleep, the high levels of cortisol, like all those things start to become like issues because we're not designed to be stressed all the time. Like what you're mentioning, like we're not designed to be in that state 24/7 for like months at a time, we're designed for like a short bursts like one short bursts, like today, I went for a run, I worked out, and then I took an ice bath and a sauna, and I super relaxed the rest of the day, even if something were to happen or something bad, whatever, I will handle it with a much more calm, relaxed approach than if I slept in had a bad breakfast. You know, didn't didn't didn't do any breathwork didn't do any cold didn't do anything like that, my tolerance, my threshold for stress is much lower. So when something hits me, it's going to hit me much harder, I'm not going to be in this kind of like, relaxed, sort of like euphoric state that, that I'm in now. So it's, it's the idea of inviting good heeling forms of stress in working with those forms, showing yourself that you can breathe through high level stress, you can relax, it's like, you know, the people at that mountain Sandy yoga, they're, they're going into yoga hot yoga class, I mean, the room was is hot, I can feel it. As I get into the studio, that the class ended an hour before I got there. It's still hot. They feel amazing afterwards, when they let that sunshine hit their face in the cold air from the outside hit their face to get the air conditioning. And it helps them navigate the rest of their day in a much calmer, more relaxed way. Sometimes Sometimes we're all just kind of high strung, but the breath work is a very sort of passive way to relax in stress, and to show yourself that you can actually slow things down in stressful moments.

Katie Graham

Right? Can you share your own personal story? Like, how did you find breathwork? And, and obviously, you're so passionate about it. But like, how did you find it? And were you dealing with something that really helped helped you recover? Yeah, I

Avi Greenberg

was. It was about 2016 2017. I just moved back from New York to Miami where I'm from, and I was living in Miami and I was dealing dealing with like subpar energy. I was just like kind of in a rut just not feeling really energized, energized or excited about much of my life. And I watched a vice doc on Wim Wim Hof Method. A lot of people have seen this like a 4038 minute vice documentary. And there was something about his energy he was like, charismatic, I think that's what, why he's so popular in a lot of ways that people gravitate towards that like really positive, happy, anyone can do this type of feeling. It's not like he's, you know, shredded with a six pack, you know, trying to be an Instagram influencer. He's just who he is. He has no filter. He's not trying to be something that he's not, he's literally doing his own thing, and has been his whole life. Or at least his whole adult life. And there was something that resonated with me there. And I just thought, you know, I need to make a change. And actually, you know, not to deviate too far away from breathwork and Wim Hof Method, but I had decided to go to Peru to do Ayahuasca because I thought that was going to be the change that was going to put me on the right track. So I was going to go to the jungle, and I gave myself like a three month window. I booked it for like four months in advance and I said, Alright, if you could get your stuff together for the next three months, you'll be ready you go to Peru. And so I went back and revisited the vice stock and and I watched it again, maybe watched it twice even and then I downloaded the app at that point, you had to pay for the Wim Hof app. And I just said you're gonna do this breathing every day I couldn't I tried to meditate before I tried to do things to like calm my mind. I was what was considered add. I was a pothead and I just like didn't ever feel like I could relax a smoke pot and I was like sitting on my couch watching TV. And obviously that wasn't conducive to feeling good. That was conducive to like feeling lethargic, and having the munchies and not taking good care of myself. So I slowly started well, kind of slowly. I just started doing the breathing every day. And then I found a health club that had a cold plunge and a sauna in Miami and I joined and I you know, it was an expensive membership but I've always kind of been of the mind where like if you're paying for something that's for your health and wellness, like going to get massages or going to like a gym, like get a good massage, pay for a really good gym. Like you want to do things for yourself that feel good. Like I used to have friends in New York did like why do you go to The most expensive gym like in Chelsea. And I say because I don't want to go to some dump, like, I won't go to the gym, if it's like some dumpy gym that like I hate going to, then I'm just gonna find any excuse not to go. But if it's a really nice gym and they have a sauna, and they have basketball courts and swimming pool and a track and all these things, I'll stay for four hours. And then if I go five days a week, then it's totally worth it. So that was kind of the deal. Like I paid to go to a center in Peru that was not like a like, in the middle of like the jungle, you're like, like, you know, it was relatively nice. But it was five ceremonies and six nights. So I knew I had to kind of have my stuff together as he had told me on the call. So that's what I did. I just started doing Wim every day for for three, four months, I cut out all the toxins in my diet and what I was smoking and I cleaned everything up, and I got in a really good shape. I like lost all this weight was sleeping better than I ever had. I didn't really you don't realize how how bad your sleep is until you start sleeping really well. You're like, oh my god, this is what it's supposed to be like. And, and I didn't know, you know, Wim Hof Method or any other breathing modalities, all I knew was follow the app, listen. And then I met an instructor in Miami who told me I should get certified shortly after I got back from Peru. And he was like, you should get certified man, like you really liked this stuff. And he guided me and a few few friends like a bunch of times. And I was like, Man, he's like, he wasn't even doing Wim Hof, he was playing with other stuff too. Because there's a lot out there. And you can play with all different types of breathing and sprinkle it in. And in a lot of ways, like it's a creative exercise to lead someone in breathwork. Like the way I talk is going to be different. You had Jeremy on that, how Jeremy talks and the way, Shelly, who's another Utah based instructor talks and does her thing is different, how Jeremy does. So we all sort of have our own flavors and our own ways of doing things. And even just at the workshop level, like it's all different. So I you know, I got certified, and then I started teaching, like a workshop once a month, and I started doing like some breath, work stuff, and then slowly started to evolve. And then, you know, I made it, I made the right call at the time I quit,

quit in 2019 in the spring, like spring, beginning of end of winter, beginning of spring, but actually left the job in the summer because they asked me to stay a little bit longer to kind of help help keep things running. And, you know, I was I was sort of a big part of the New York Sales sales side. So they wanted me to close out my deals and train someone new. And so I didn't have a new job in tech. So I stayed for like three more months. And then I quit and I I did three workshops. The first week I quit. I did a rooftop private workshop in Soho.

My wife helped me and I brought in a friend who's a chef in New York who plays the drums also, and I had him come and play drums for me. But to get to this guy's rooftop. I had I had 100 gallon trough filled with like 200 pounds of ice. And we basically took it in this tiny, small New York City elevator to you know, it's one of those apartments where like, the elevator door opens in the apartment, like it's a really nice place. It's on like Broome Street and in Soho. So the elevator door opens. This guy's there with his girlfriend. And I have my trough on dolly on a dolly and he's a big guy. He's like a fit guy. And he was like, Hey, man, so yeah, we're gonna do it up on the rooftop, but there's no elevator to the rooftop, but I'd prefer if you didn't use the stairs in my apartment like could use the like the fire escape like, like the you know, the utility stairs in the back of the apartment. So I had to roll this massive tub that was filled with 200 pounds of melting ice because now we're in June it's hot New York. And he's like a please. And the girlfriends I can tell so pissed that we're doing this through the apartment. And he's got nice stuff, nice furniture, nice carpet, nice everything. And I was just like, all right, he's like this, don't make a mess. Push it through the bedroom, the living room all the way through the back door and then get to the stairs and then basically carry the trough and these like 40 pound bags full of ice up two flights of stairs. And that was my first private workshop and I did it that like Wednesday, my last day at the job was Tuesday. Then I flew to Miami that Friday and I did a private workshop for this other other guy at his house at his super nice apartment building. And I did on Saturday then I did a group workshop on Sunday and I was like oh wow, this was like a really good week like I did three workshops two privates one group one I had 20 people in the group one like I'm gonna do really well doing this and I had a really good like Monday week and and I had nothing else was planned really I had maybe one more workshop planned in the Hamptons at the end of the summer. And I only got five signups or four for signups. So maybe I did one in June as well or July, but I didn't make that much from that one either. So I really didn't make money again until September. And it was really stressful. And I started realizing, Oh, wow, like, I can't just do workshops, and sustain my lifestyle. I was living in a nice apartment in Chelsea in New York's expensive neighborhood. And I was going to my fancy gym, as you know. So I slowly started to realize I had to do more. And that's when I decided to go to the Netherlands to take another course and train in the nervous system and breathing that was not Wim Hof related like we did five days, considered like a Master master course of breath work and nervous system talk. And it was it was a really interesting, it was a really interesting week, but it gave me the confidence to come back and raise my prices. One, two, it also gave me the confidence to start working with people one on one. I did a nice run of workshops. This was actually right when the group episode of for Wim Hof Method came out like the Gwyneth Paltrow Netflix show. And I think every Wim Hof instructor that was teaching workshops then can attest to that there was a big bump in interest. Like all of a sudden, you went from teaching 1015 20 person workshops to like 3040. Even I did one in in Cherry Hill with a buddy. It was almost 60 people. And at that point, that was my biggest workshop to date. It was a charity event, too. So we were raising funds and awareness for a condition called ALS. But it was 60 people. I mean, it was it was a big group. And yeah, and I started getting booked for privates, I went back to The Hamptons and did another private workshop. And January was like, alright, things are happening. Things are like starting to like percolate now. And I started getting I actually got to private clients from the Cherry Hill workshop. Actually, these two guys came and they actually heard me talk about having anxiety. And they connected me to their to their mothers, like these two separate guys wanted me to do virtual breathing sessions with their moms because their moms one mom suffered from rheumatoid arthritis, the other mom suffered from severe anxiety. So those are my first two virtual private clients. And I started with them. January of 2020. And and then yeah, then the pandemic hit, and all my workshops basically got had to get cancelled. And I started like cold emailing a lot of people like HR. And I got two meetings, one with LinkedIn, and one with Netflix. And Netflix brought me on and I did close to like 20 sessions with them through through the pandemic, and then slowly started to build out like a corporate business from there.

Katie Graham

Yeah, I mean, it makes sense that companies would want breathwork right into their workspace, because if their employees are less stressed and more centered, like they're going to be more productive, kind of what we were talking about earlier. Yeah, totally makes sense. So for you and your personal story, I think the one thing that kind of jumped out at me was just how much rapid change that you went through and kind of that moment that you decided things needed to change. And then you just like, got really clean and you lost weight and you stopped smoking and it kind of seemed like was it the Wim Hof kind of the central thing that was really helping you stay centered and and helped you get, you know, get to the point that you desired

Avi Greenberg

it it definitely was a catalyst I think the fear of going into the jungle and not being able to like handle the ceremonies was enough to hang over me to give me the discipline to do the breathing every day. And it starts really with the breathing like the cold. I didn't figure out how to sit in the cold for like a few weeks, but I was doing the breathing every day. And I think why Wim Hof breathing is such a such a global like phenomenon is because most people like me who suffered from like attention and phone addiction can't sit for five minutes without looking at their phone. While they're trying to meditate. They're probably checking Instagram. So for me it was like I was doing this breathing. And I was physically feeling my body relaxed. I was physically feeling something change internally. And so it definitely was a catalyst I found to getting into the cold and just creating that discipline to do that hard thing that I really didn't want to do. And calming myself down in it and going into the sauna. I was doing sauna and cold like I'd start every session with 2020 minutes in the sauna. I take Have a couple cold showers in that period then I go down to the cold plunge in. It's not like an ice bath was probably like anywhere from like 55 to 65 degrees. And I would just sit in there and I started going every day and and I almost started to feel better like within a week or two and I think that was helpful for me to feel like Alright, keep this going keep this going and listen. It's not like I've been amazing you know riding a unicorn since then, like I've had really down periods. I've gone back into like old habits like I've fallen back in my fitness I fallen back in my my, my, you know, sleep, I've fallen back in my, my eating habits. But I still know, I still know the foundations to keep me home and keep me grounded and keep me feeling good. And I know if I implement them and I and I do the things I need to do, I will feel better. Like I know it's not so this this like never ending challenge. Like I know if like I do breath work. And it doesn't have to be Wim Hof breathing, I actually rarely do Wim Hof breathing these days. If I do breath work, any sort of breath work, it could be five, the one I always do is five and five out through the nose is called you know, heart coherence breathing, and it's a very calming, soothing, it's it's taps into, like the most calm side of the nervous system, one of the more calm sides of the nervous system, and it's six breaths, cycles per minute. So it's a five second inhale, five second exhale, if I do that, once a day, I work out, I eat relatively good. And I stopped beating around 6pm and I add maybe cold hot, I'll probably going to feel really good. Like I'm probably most likely I'm not going to feel really good. Like if I get to jujitsu, and then I go for a hike, or I do certain things like I'll feel better. But like if I have the foundations in place, and it's tough, you know, like I'm a young young father and new father rather not not super young, but young enough. And if I do the basics, and the foundations and I keep doing my therapy, and I go for massage, and I go to get acupuncture, and I do take time in between sessions, and I give myself space to like, be outside, like, I will feel good, you know, and it's not like, I'm going to fall into that same as far down that rut. I just, I think I'm good at knowing when something doesn't work for me. And being willing to stop that. Like, I

think a lot of people settle in a lot of ways, like settle in a bad job settle in a relationship that doesn't work for them settle in a lifestyle that doesn't work for them. And listen, I will do the same for a period of time. But when when I've had enough, I will stop. Like when when I'm in a when I've been in bad relationships. I don't just stay in it. Because I think well, we've been together for like a year or two. I'm just gonna like see this thing out like no, if this doesn't work for me, and I feel physically bad. Or I'm at a job like the Detect job like I was making six figures I was really comfortable financially, I was able to afford to take trips and get certified at Wim Hof Method. But I physically didn't like going to work anymore. Like I physically would wake up in the morning, go to yoga, do my sauna, do my cold, and I just wanted to go back to my apartment and not go to the office. Like I just wanted to do anything but going into the office. And I would have certain meetings weekly. These like manager meetings and my poor manager at the time, would want me to forecast my sales every month. And I hated those meetings. Like I just hated it. I was like, Dude, I don't know, I'll close as many as I close. Like, I can't tell you exactly who's gonna close and who's not. And I would literally, we kind of get into it every time is like, Why do you like, why like, like, and I was I was good at my job. Like I hit quota most months. And I had probably the first or second highest quote in the company. But I just I just didn't like the daily routine of like, calls meetings, quotas, you know, Excel spreadsheets, like all that stuff. Like I just felt like I wasn't living up to my full potential and I think that's part of it. Like I feel like I was for years not living up to who I should be and like what I should be doing and I think I always wanted to help people I always wanted to be like a light in a in something a source of like happiness for people like even in the office like I would have people that would come to me when they're having a rough day or they wanted to talk or they need to go out for a walk and a coffee and like I would always be that person but not just in my last job like in my last like eight jobs Yeah, I think I was one of that.

Katie Graham

Yeah, I was just gonna say I think that's such a good point as far as we Yeah, if we can get so stuck in just the comfortable and I know for me like I had been in that place before and I just kind of had this deep kind of pit in my I stomach and not like just not feeling like myself like not feeling like my life was headed in the direction that I wanted it to go. And when you were talking, Avi I just realized that Wim Hof and breath work is kind of this way of getting us into that centered place. And to kind of you can call it high yourself or, you know, whatever like intuitive state into that place of peace, where then we can get more clarity, because I think what's really stops people is that when you get it, when you're in a comfortable place, and you're at a job, and you know, you're doing things and you know, you want to change, you're just might not be sure what to do, or how to change or like what wellness tool like, what exercise,

Avi Greenberg

but you're also scared of failure, like you're scared that like you're going to shift and like quit your comfortable job with health benefits 401 K, and then you're going to have to deal with what I dealt with that first summer, where I did the three workshops, and then I had nothing happening for three months. And that was the one or like, do I go back? Like my old CEO told me he said, When you leave, if you ever feel like you want it because I was good at my job. Like he's like, if you ever want to come back, even if you want to do part time, just let me know. And you can come back. And I sort of had to forget that. Because if I was conditioned to think that there was a safety net, or there was a plan B, that I might have quit, I might have just said, You know what? This workshop thing? You know, especially there was some low points. Like, I don't think this is for me, like I just don't think I can make this work.

Katie Graham

That's kind of the overthinker I think in both of us. Yeah, is that we can get like these fearful thoughts. Like you start spiraling, you're like, what about my 401k? What about my savings account? What about this business? And it's like, Well, did anything really bad happened to you? Yeah, no, like you, like you're on a path where exactly where you're meant to be going. But it's like, that's what the breathwork brings me back into. That's what it centers me back into when I'm like, I want change or, you know, I don't know how to change or if I do want change like this, all the shits gonna happen, like 401k is gonna go blah, blah, blah, blah. And then it's like the breath work. I'm like, Oh, I have clarity. Like I have a moment to breathe. Where I'm like, it makes sense what I need to do,

Avi Greenberg

and honestly, to like an S from a scientific perspective, your prefrontal cortex, like that front part of your brain that's like, the modern sharp, like, get this thing done, pay this bill, email this person, send the calendar invite, that part of your brain quiets down, so that like fearful place quiets down in your breath, work and in your breathing and your exercises. And even in you know, workouts and things like that it can quiet down and allows these other neural pathways to open up and you can increase your adrenaline and it can release dopamine, it can get you into this really like happy bubbly, relaxed state. And then all of a sudden, like all the things that you're so fearful over, you know, the details of your regular life, all of a sudden, you can start to relax those things, but there's no person I think that most of the time I would say most people that quit the job world, the system like the nine to five, you know, some people call it the matrix, whatever you leave that there's always doubt like, there's always like, there's always this fear this like, oh man, am I gonna make this work? What happens if I don't? Am I gonna have to go back and like, listen, there's been times in last two, three years, I tell my wife, like, I don't want to go back. Like I just don't ever want to go back. I'm gonna make this work one way or another and then like, you know, people will think it's like, reckless, you know, have kid we're having another kid in August. And it's like, no, it's like, I'm going to show my daughter and soon to be son that like, they can have a job or a career that they actually love and they're actually passionate about and they can do something that helps others and make a living and feel really good doing it and not feel like if they don't get this degree or they don't get their MBA or they don't go to medical school might come from a family of doctors, you know, like my dad's an ER doctor, my uncle's my cousins like I have doctors through my family you know and and

Katie Graham

what I'm like just sorry to cut you off but your truth right? Is that like your you knew that you couldn't stay in a nine to five. So you needed like, similar to my story needed to quit and be an entrepreneur. But like somebody else's truth might be to stay like it has nothing to do with the job. And maybe it's just like they're, you know, they have a desire where they want to be more creative or they have a desire where they want to lose weight or like, I guess I just, I'm just coming back to my point of it being it doesn't matter what the path is. It just matters that you get to a place where you can tune into your truth totally. And you can find that make a choice or not make a choice. But now you have the clarity to be in an empowered place, I think that's the place that most of us are missing. And that's the place that breathwork can really help bring us back into

Avi Greenberg

totally. And it's a journey, whatever that that endeavor is, it's finding joy, and finding peace and happiness in the day to day. And if, whatever you're doing your life, wherever you're whoever you're with, if it's not working for you, and it's not uplifting to you, you don't feel good doing it. What do you have to do to adjust it or to fix it to make it feel good? Because life is short? Not to be cliche. But if you're doing things, you're around people that just don't work for you, then what are you doing? Like, then what's the point? You know, like, what's the point of doing this thing every day. And like, for me, it was like, Alright, I've gotten to work Monday through Friday, if I'm miserable on Sunday, because I gotta go into the office on Monday, and I'm miserable Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and only start to feel better on Thursday. That's like, that's like, you know, forfeit for like, four sevens of my week to be unhappy, you know. So it doesn't make sense to do that. So maybe I take a hit financially for a few years, but I build something out. And listen, I always have to like, kind of like, like, pull back a little bit and take a little bit more of a macro view and be like, Hey, Ian, if you would have told me a year ago, two years ago, you're gonna have x number of clients X number of corporate, you're going to sell out your last two workshops, you're going to be able to do what you want to do pretty much day to day, except for like five hours a day where I have to dues or I do sessions, it's a pretty good like, deal. Like, I probably would have taken that three, four years ago. And even last year, like it's, and it's only evolving, like, it's only going to continue to grow as long as I believe in it. As long as I continue to educate myself. And I think somebody we spoke about before we started to record like, coming at it with like, humility, appreciation and gratitude. There's no, there's no reason why it won't continue to be something that I can share and help people with. And that ultimately is, is the driving factor. Like I'm not, I'm not motivated by like an Instagram following or like getting a brand to like, pay me to Shell their their vitamins or their nutrients or their supplements. I don't, I don't really have any interest in being an influencer, I have interest in working with people and like helping people get their lives in a place where they're really happy like that, that excites me a lot more and helping someone that's on a healing journey like I was, that's a lot more interesting to me than having 5000 10,000 20,000 followers, but I see how that can also be enticing. Like, I see that excitement and getting more followers and building that up. And I'm not saying I'm above that I have to work through that too. But to me, the journey is really about how many people can I impact and I don't like creating content on social media. So I should probably, I should probably accept that and move on to like actually creating relevant impact for people that that need help, whether it's someone with anxiety, depression, someone that wants to get a better shape, someone wants to feel better, someone that wants to be a better parent better partner. So to me that that's way more exciting. And I think I focus on that. And I think it feels good to just let go of a lot of other thoughts and constraints. But it's hard. It's hard. I still, I do still do the cross comparison to like that instructor or that influencer and think like, Ah, God, if I just did this, that the other, you know, but ultimately, like, you know, to do to do this work and to share it and to be open to meeting new people all the time and to travel to do it. It's a gift. Like I can't, I can't complain in any any way shape or form I had my daughter comes out to the backyard and watches me and ice baths. And she's like, you know, swirling the water around with her little baby hands. And like this is so this is so crazy that this is my life. You know, I still kind of pinch myself. Yeah,

Katie Graham

yeah, I think he made some really good points. And it's almost like this radical honesty place where it's you can evaluate, you can kind of step back and look at your life and what you're saying it's like, Fine, I'm unhappy four out of the seven days a week, or whatever it is. It's like, oh, maybe there's something there that you can tweak or a little shift or something that brings you more into your self worth. Because I think that's what it is. For me. It's like your do you do have a short life and you should feel worthy of it. You should feel like you're living the life that you want to live. And I know it's just like, it sounds so cliche and what you're saying is like neither of us are above it. But it's you do have to swim upstream, because our biology is literally perverse. Any are not preventing us, but it's pushing us back into those samskaras those grooves of patterns that yeah, you know, that we've, we're used to, and we're designed to want comfort like we're designed to, like, the ego wants us to be in the comfortable. And so it's like, so we have to know that we're literally swimming upstream to, to make the changes that we want in our life to live the life that we want. And you see these people that are really inspiring, motivating, you're like, oh, I want to live like that. I want to be empowered, you know, it's like, and then we, it feels so far away, but it's not far away. It's just that they've done the work. They've done the subtle shifts, and they know that they're worthy of it. And I think that's a big thing. They're taking responsibility for their life

Avi Greenberg

totally. And the systems designed to make you stay in it. Like it's designed to make you think, well, if I don't have health insurance, and I remember, I used to sell insurance, I guess one of the many jobs that I hated, but I used to sell insurance, like, you can't count the number of times that a life or health insurance agent says God forbid, God forbid, God forbid. And it's like, you live this mentality. And most people live this mentality, like, God forbid, something bad happens, something bad happens. But ultimately, you know, if that's how you're living, you're living in like a state of perpetual fear or, or concern for the unknown. You're never going to hit your full potential, you're only going to be living in this state. Well, I got to be comfortable. I can't give up my my 6070 8090 100 plus K job a year because I'm comfortable here. And this feels really good to me. And I did go to college, and I paid off my college debt, or I'm paying off my college debt. And I'm supposed to, like, follow this path. Because this was the path that I was told to do. And if I follow the path, it's everything's gonna work

Katie Graham

out and people are relying on you to stay on that path. I think that's a big thing, too, is like you like, at least for me as like, I really care about the people. I'm a people pleaser, like, Yes, I worry, you know, like, if I change, like, what are they gonna think like, what and I'm like, I'm failing them, like, I'm failing them. But they just want me to be happy

Avi Greenberg

to be happy. And I remember I got back from Peru, I might have, I told my dad, like, right off the bat, I'm like, I'm not going to do that job like that thing you want. And it like, released us, I released me, I don't know, if it helped him, it probably made him more anxious. But it made me feel like finally, like, I've gotten that off my chest. And I went back to jobs, like I said, that he would have approved of, but ultimately, it was never worked for me and never felt good. And I kind of realized when I was working at that last tech company, because I always thought like, Oh, if you could just make like six figures, like just see what that feels like, maybe that's the ticket like Maybe you just haven't been making enough. And I was always knocking on the door of it. And I finally broke the door down and it looked like I was going to make you know more and more and more. And it didn't make me any happier. Not Not a drop, like not announced, like I get those paychecks every two weeks. I you know, spend money and I just it didn't didn't add any sort of value in my life. It didn't make me feel like better my job will make me feel like more, you know, important at home, nothing is added nothing and not to say listen, some people they help. So it makes them feel really good. They get that new Tesla, they get that new car, they get that new thing. And it helps but I found and I don't live like a monk or anything but like I found the less I like I want like the less like things I need to get for myself. The happier I am like I like to buy stuff for like my wife. Like I like to buy my wife like something nice because that makes her feel good. And that makes me feel good to make her feel good or like by a friend or president are my daughter something and like, you know, I almost find like, the less I have the better the more, the more comfortable. I feel I got my sauna in the backyard. You know, I got my cold plunge, I go to my jujitsu gym, you know, it's like, what else? What else do I really need? Like yeah, like Topo Chico in the house in the fridge. And like, beyond that I

don't I don't really need that much. I miss access today, daily water, like jumping in the ocean and doing things like that. So I try to take trips to the water occasionally. But beyond that, I just I don't know, like I just I found this really happy place like in that and just and feeling comfortable. I think the older I get the more I realized that like that's that's my happy zone like that's my happy zone is with less with my family. And I mean, I'm making as much now as I did when I was at the tech company. You know if if it's a financial thing that people are scared of to take that leap. I believe if you are passionate you really love what you do. Whatever money you need to make to make those ends meet if you can survive that first initial fear and that first moment stuff like uncertainty if you could just ride those waves and maybe listen, maybe you have to do two things at once. Like I had to do the workshops and work at the tech job at the same time. And my wife floated me for the, for the first three or four months through that summer. And then she paid for me to go to the Netherlands to do that master course, and breathwork, she paid for most of it. And yeah, she had to float me she like, had to take care of me, she was working. And I was trying to figure it out. And I was taking every meeting I could with anybody that would was interested in anything I had to say. And I was doing everything for free, because I just thought I needed to do things to get my name out there. And then it's, you know, it slowly starts to shift. And, and I think the thing that that was good about it was that I wasn't ready to like, have a lot of opportunity early on. Like I wasn't, I was still figuring out my voice, my flow, what I could bring to people and like I was decent at it, I was pretty good. And I'm still not great. But like I'm still figuring it out. I'm still honing. But I think early on, it was good to like have the workshops where like only three people signed up, and I lost money and doing doing things for less and like feeling like I have to like almost like, you know, like get my get my get my reps and get my like experience in doing the things that at the time, I felt like, Ah, I did a morning breathwork only one person showed up for weeks in a row. And then one week, no one showed up. And it's just like, that's kind of part of it. And whenever someone comes to me that's really interested in and doing similar things to what I do, or maybe they're doing something similar and just health and wellness. Just kind of get those reps in, you just gotta like figure it out. And almost better that it doesn't blow up. And it's huge at the beginning because it helps you to fail, it helps you to struggle in the beginning that swimming upstream. I love that metaphor because you have to swim upstream for a while. And it's good to like struggle with that, it's good to like learn your stroke and your technique and what feels good and what doesn't feel good. So that way, when you actually get to like a place where you're doing really cool work, and you're working with companies, you're working with big groups, you're doing private workshops for big people or whomever, you're ready, and you're like dialed in and you're focused, and you know, you know your stuff well, and you're ready to like really go out there and do the job that you're supposed to do. So it takes time, though, takes reps, because,

Katie Graham

yeah, it's such a beautiful way to describe that integration of the doing, like the steps towards what you desire. But then also like the underlying fears, and like the underlying patterns that hold us back. And those are the things I think that we're not so conscious of. But those are just as important as like the actual doing actual steps, like, like what you're talking about, like money and like that's it, that's a thing that we all have to deal with. And for me, like this weekend, like I took that Ayurveda training, and it was a few $100. And I realized that I was feeling guilty about spending the money. But then I also knew this is my favorite, like taking trainings learning, like it lights up my world, like, it's my favorite thing. And I have the money in the bank. And so it's, I really, you know, it's not about the money, like it's about the fear underneath. And it's so then I realized, you know, maybe my relationship to money needs to like, I need to shine a little light on that stuff going on. And so it's those little things like if you're in that awareness place, and you're a little curious, it's like, was it wasn't about the money and thank God, like, I could realize that because what if I hadn't taken the training and then do it? Because it costs a certain amount of money? Exactly. Yeah, it can go either way. And and so I think it's like, being in that place of self awareness. And it all I'm just I just keep circling it back to the breath work, because that's just a tool that allows us to be in that place of clarity. And it's not, you know, we don't it's not hard. Like it's it doesn't take a lot of work like you're not over yet. It's not about the overthinking and trying to analyze and try to, you know, oh, do I need to be aware here do i It's just you're already in that place. So you're already like calm you're centered. You're and then you like kind of, you know, get in this childlike quality of like, curiosity and water and I'm like, Oh, I'm like, Oh, that's weird. Like something's going on with money, like and then I bought this book that was called, I think it was called Soul of money. I'll put it in the show notes. It's amazing to like, reflect on our relationship with money and how does our culture interact with money and anyway, so there's like a deeper layer I think to our desires, that it's just important to kind of like keep you know, keep pinpointing on because It's something that really make a big difference once we're able to shine a light on those fears.

Avi Greenberg

I tried to have an abundance mindset, like I tried to think you know what? This workshop, even if it's 10 people, it's still gonna be great experience, if only sell for five and like, listen, I still get all myself but like, the scarcity mentality when it comes to money and everything that will stop you from taking the course from buying the book from doing the workshop from doing the things that you should be doing. And I always think back to one of the guys I met in Peru, this guy named Paul Spiegel. He's an attorney in California, San Francisco. And he was like, I think it was at stage four cancer and was in chemo and pretty much thought that was it. Like he thought that that was it. And he talks about like, when we were in Peru, who's a really amazing guy, he is amazing guy, he's, he's alive still. And he said to me, he goes, you know, are you ever going to be on your deathbed thinking like, God, I wish I didn't take that AI or Vedic course. Or I wish I didn't take that trip to Peru. Like you're gonna think no, I should have done more of that I should have taken the course in India and I should have gone back to Peru three more times and sat with the medicine and like, you're not going to be thinking about those things and not that you want to put your life into that kind of like finite scope, but sometimes it's like it's helpful like I even was talking to a couple people a few weeks ago who are super talented, creative, hardworking and, and I and I and I just like they're working for jobs they don't really love and I just said listen, like what if like, you only had like, one year left to live like, Would you would you go to work on Monday? They No, I would never go to work on that'd be it I would stop right now. And not to have that mentality like day to day like to that extent but like something close to that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Like that sense of urgency in life to like live the life that you actually want to live and part of my story that I mentioned, but part of what gave me the courage and the fortitude to quit my job in tech was I went to Mexico City in March of 2019. And I was going to climb a mountain about and called pico that Adisa with another Wim Hof instructor who's based in Mexico City, who's Mexico's for first Wim Hof instructors, a good friend of mine named Juan Pablo, and he was climbing the three highest mountains in Mexico in a short amount of time. He actually has Lyme disease and was kind of doing this like feat to show people that like you can beat Lyme disease through cold exposure. breathwork Wim Hof Method. So he planned to climb these first two mountains. And then the third one was this mountain. And I reached out to him because he put it on the Facebook Wim Hof group, like, Hey, I'm going to climb these mountains if anyone's interested and wants to come. And I think I was just looking for something like something like I had with Peru like something to like, wake me up because I was in a malaise with my job. I was doing the workshops, but I was burning the candle at both ends. So I agreed. I said, Yeah, I'm going to come like tell me which mountain I should come for. And for some reason, he told me the last one, you know, which was happened to be the tallest mountain in Mexico, which happens to be the third tallest mountain in North America. And this was one they were gearing up towards him and his team in Mexico City, which Mexico City is also already at, like a really high elevation. I was living in New York and had lived on sea level my whole life. So he's like, Come, we'll do this in March. Here's the list of stuff to buy. I mean, I had never even heard of crampons. I had never heard of like half the stuff I needed. And I didn't have any gear. So I tried to like mix and match stuff and put stuff together. And I was taking like spin classes and only breathing through my nose to try to create like less oxygen and I was doing some other things. And I really wasn't training that hard. Like, frankly, I was training very mildly for what I should have been training for. I just didn't know I climbed a mountain with Wim and the group of instructors in Oregon. And I thought I was pretty easy. I did pretty well doing that. So this shouldn't be too bad. way wrong. Got to Mexico City. spent three days in Mexico City before we went to the mountain and kind of knew in Mexico City, I might be in trouble because Mexico City or things like like, maybe 10,000 feet, maybe 8000 feet somewhere around there about altitude. And um, yeah, I'm climbing upstairs in Mexico City going up to yoga studio. And I'm like getting out of breath. I'm like, oh shit, like this is gonna be tough. So then we get to the mountain. And it's me, Juan Pablo.

Another one are two wonderful gentlemen, one by the name of Ma. And another guy named yummies, Jimmy's yummies and we had our guide. And basically we're going to do two days at a base camp on the mountain to two days. And then the second night, we're going to wake up at midnight and a set to the to the summit. And I could feel immediately like this mountain was like, really intense, really scary. There was tombstones on the mountain, not like tombstones like, you know, like memorials for people that had died on the mountain but not like died like 2030 years ago, like died like three, four years ago. Like, one of the guys bet us on the mountain after the first day and basically said, Yeah, I had a group of French climbers last winter, and they didn't listen. And they stayed on that they stay trying to ascend, and they all died. They couldn't they couldn't like something happened with the altitude and it was bad. And he was telling me it's also about carrying the bodies down and stuff. It was all it was like, like, in my head, the voices started coming out like you're not going to make it you're not going to make it what do you do. And so the second night, we wake up at midnight, basically didn't sleep and we start to climb at midnight, because the sun's can be really strong and the weather can change a lot. So we started at midnight 1230 And my friend Juan Pablo is climbing shirtless, like Allah Wim Hof, you know, Kilimanjaro, and he is going at a pace that I was not prepared for. He is going so fast. He's so prepared. Like it was like a boxer training for a title fight just like weeks and months of preparation, preparation, and then the fight comes in. It's like, you know, you let out the dog and it's like, let's go and that's what he was. They all were like that I was the Slowpoke. I was the one huffing and puffing. I was one that could barely keep up. I was getting cramps in my groins. I'd never gotten a cramp in my groin. Both of my groins were cramped. It was pitch black. It was moonlit. We had headlamps, but it was I mean, it is treacherous like you look down and I mean, it's near its death right next to you. It's not like, you know, there's stairs or it's, it's I mean, you know, you're you're you're from Utah, you understand mountains, I didn't. And on that mountain, I did not make it to the summit, I got to the glacier, which is right at like the next layer of where you would go to get to the summit. The glacier is the last stretch, which is the hardest stretches going through what could be waist deep snow, and you have to connect to three people, two people, three people have to connect by by rope. You have to have your crampons on, you gotta climb through the glacier. And if it's two people, they can't go, you need three people to be tied to each other to climb. So while I'm Pablo unis, and their guide had already started going through the glacier, ma poor Ma was stuck with me and Kado, our guide, and basically kados Like you can't go, she's like you're not in any shape. I was like shaking, trembling from the altitude had been sweating. So my shirt was soaked from sweat, and I was getting really cold in my chest. I barely got my crampons on. It was like kind of like, we knew I wasn't going to do it. But like I had been training to get my crampons on, and I got them on and they're like, now take them off. We're not going and I felt awful because Ma, you know, freak of nature that he is he's an ultra runner and climbs mountains, like it's, you know, breakfast, he's having for breakfast he he was singing as we were climbing the mountain. Like that's how unaffected he was, by the pace, the altitude, all of it, he was literally singing. And it was like, so humbling in a way to be like, like struggling that much. And literally in my mind, my mind is telling me you're going to die. Like how are you going to get down from here, you're climbing all this way up in the pitch black? How are you going to get down, your legs are jello, you've got cramps all over your body, especially in your groins, you're not going to make it down. And that voice was a whisper from the moment we started. And that voice got really loud as we continued. And I made it to the glacier. And that was as far as I was meant to go. And I went back down. And I felt really bad for me because he was really ready to climb. And he had been to the mountain before and wasn't able to climb his first time going.

And, and we went back to the base camp and I had probably the most, you know, humbling, appreciative breakfast I'd ever had, because there was someone cooking breakfast at another tent that was climbing and I had the breakfast and MA ended up going for a run. That's how geeked and jazz and physically fit he was he went for like an hour long run around the base. Like we weren't on the bottom of the mountain. We were like in the middle of the mountain. And Juan Pablo humans and their guide came down and met us and it was like this great accomplishment. He got the mountain to the top and in that in that day in that moment in those like 1214 hours. I said I'm going home and I'm quitting. Like, I was so close to what I thought death was even if I was or wasn't I don't know how close I actually was. I'm not a doctor. But I said when I go home, I'm quitting my job. And we left them out and went back back to Mexico City. I did two nights in Mexico City. I might even have told Juan Pablo. Oddly enough, he was also working for a tech startup and working in sales and kind of mirrored me. But in Mexico City, I was in New York City and I flew back and I spent the first night in bed. After flying back, I got back at night, and I'm in bed with my wife. And I'm like, I'm like almost in tears. I'm so appreciative to be back in my bed. Because there was definitely a point on that mountain. I'm like, I might not make it back. Like I this might not display that go further than this mountain. So the next day I go to the office. Oddly enough, the VP of sales is in town from Boston, and he's normally never in town. And let's just say I didn't get along great with him. He and him and I just thought differently about a lot of things fundamentally, as maybe you're really nice about it. But he basically told me, it's like Avi put put 10 minutes on the calendar for us to catch up. And I was like, oh, first of all, I found that to be like, very arrogant. It's like, you can't just tell me, Hey, I got time from three to five or whatever. He's like, Fine Time on my calendar and put it on there. And I kind of ignored it. I just didn't do it. And then around 4pm, he's like, Hey, he slacks me, which I hated slack. He's like, Hey, I'm leaving to go to the Grand Central going back to Boston, like, like, do you have five we can meet the cafe and have a chat and catch up. I just signed my new deal for that year for my new Compaq. You know, they raised like, they doubled my quota. They they gave me a bump. My base salary I was on target to make, you know, maybe like 30 40% what I made the previous year. And it took us two months to iron out those details because I was pushing back. So we sit down. Basically he wants to like, so how's everything going? What are you going to sell that? Like, talk shop, and he's getting into like talk shop mode. And I just say, hey, you know, I've actually decided, and I didn't 10 told anybody at the office, and I had friends in the office who I could have told prior as a dad, I decided, I'm done. Like, I'm not going to do the job anymore. Like I'm actually going to give you my resignation. And it took me 20 minutes to explain to him what that meant. He only had 10 minutes on the calendar for us to talk but he couldn't comprehend exactly what I was saying. Because he thought I was first interviewing with someone else. He thought I already had another job lined up. He wanted to know if they're paying me more because we just worked out my new comp plan. And then finally, when I was able to like get him to understand I wasn't actually leaving for another tech or sales job that I just didn't want to do this anymore. He like almost couldn't even look at me afterwards. He was just like, I can't believe you're doing this. And yeah, and that was how I decided and then I said hey, I'll give you two months, three months, whatever you need a month. And I'll leave a leave after that like and and it was it was let's just say it was a cordial between him and I after that I basically had I don't think one more like one on one interaction with him from that point on. And and yeah, it was a great move because had I stayed probably two months into the pandemic they would have let me go because they let basically everyone at my level and one level above God let go.

Katie Graham

Oh my God, it is so good. That is good story. Like I'm dying. I just laughing. And then, you know, your life change. Like that is such a great story. And the the thing I love most about it is just the perspective shift of like, you're in this near death experience, like whether it's true or not, but like you believe it's true. It's true. And you make that decision like that is like that's what the good stories are all about, like changing your life because you realize it's so finite. And you get this like epiphany, you're like, What the hell am I doing? Like, what am I doing? And then, you know, all the things that the mind is telling you the ego is telling you. You can't do that, like my

Avi Greenberg

ego died, my ego died. Totally died and had to be reported some ways it was embarrassed. I was embarrassed. Because these guys are all climbing fast and this guy see who's they're all incredible. Like I love them all. But it and sometimes it actually just dawned on me to like had I been fine and climb to the top and been totally fine like everyone else. Maybe I wouldn't quit my job. Like maybe if it didn't push me to that place of like Life is short. You need to do something that makes you happy. Maybe if it was easy, I would have just stayed at my job. I mean, I probably would have eventually quit just because that's how I'm built. But you know, you know I'm not really like an everything happens for a reason type of person. I'm more so like things happen and how you respond to it, and how you observe it and how you react to it. That's like, that's the reasons or that's not the reasons whatever it is like that's, that's how life is, is, is live like it's not lived by everyone seeks to accomplish their goals and nails the goal the first time, you're probably going to fail, and it's probably really good for you that you do fail. So that way you can learn something, and maybe you get a little bit of humility along the way, get a little bit of like a knock to your ego. And that way, when you come back to do it again, because I will go back to Mexico and climb that mountain, like I have already, in my mind had set that thought into motion. And I have since that time, but I can promise you, I won't take it lightly. And I you know, and part of who we are is is to fail. Like I don't think you learn from only success. You know, and I think a lot of times, you know, and I was lucky, I came from a somewhat privileged upbringing, you know, my dad, like I said, was a doctor and we had a really nice house growing up and, and I didn't have to want for anything, anything I wanted was there. It wasn't that that helped make me who I am today. It was my, like, teenage years in my 20s, where I started to really struggle. And I started to have issues with like school and discipline and not taking care of myself. And like, basically, assuming someone was going to come in and save me when that's just not how life works. I had to figure it out. For myself, I had to fail a lot. I had to have a lot of bad jobs, I had to do a lot of things that I didn't want to do. I had to get really humbled in a lot of scenarios and learn the hard way. But now, man have I learned a lot of lessons along the way. And, of course, you know, I have kids, I have a kid upstairs and I want her to have a really nice, great life, but I'm okay if she has to struggle to do things like I'm okay if she has to, like, persevere and like fail or have trouble or like figure things out. You know, in some ways, that's not necessarily the ideal, you know, you know, picket fence style, like, it's okay, if she has to struggle, like it's okay, like, part of your growth. And part of what we're trying to accomplish in life, I think only really happens through struggle, and through perseverance, and through failing and through figuring it out and coming back at it and going through it again, and figuring out, you know, what, really, what really works and what really matters.

Katie Graham

Yeah, you make such a great point. I love that you brought that up. It's the failure, it's the uncomfortable, I'm amazed that you just kept going and hiking up that mountain when you're like, oh my god, I'm gonna die. You're putting your crampons on. Like that. That's pretty good.

Avi Greenberg

A really good guide Kado was like, I kept calling her my angel, because she kept motivating me to keep pushing, because I wanted she knew I probably wanted to quit really early on. And she kept inspiring me and pushing me and it was like, you know, if you've ever seen Rocky, it's, you know, she was like my Mickey like his trainer, like, you know, get up use that little bitch. Like she was pushing me and just forcing me like not forcing me but like, forcing me to like, look at things differently and not think I'm defeated. I can't make this. And

Katie Graham

she was your angel thing she was she was and

Avi Greenberg

she took care of me because she knew when it was time, like when I had when I had peaked physically, like when I had when I was already now on the other side of, you know, of what I could do physically. She knew that that was that was it like you'd gone far enough? There was an accomplishment for me just to get to the glacier. I mean, you're talking like 17,000 feet of elevation at that point. So it's not like a small amount. You know, I don't know the exact amount, but it's like in that neighborhood. And yeah, I mean, it was it was listen, I felt a sense of like pride. And again, that's kind of like the ego dying on that mountain is like that like pride as much as I thought I could will myself and be a Wim Hof instructor and, you know, I trained with Wim, I can do this, like, no, like, I wasn't prepared, I didn't train leading up to it. You know, I was taking stupid spin classes in an air conditioning Studio in Manhattan, that's not helping you to climb a mountain that's not helping you with anything. You know, that's, that's not going to get you up there. So it was all those things and really like learning and you know, I think that's, I think that's, that's, that's part of life too, is like how you react to those situations. Like I could have, you know, I could have reacted 1000 different ways from that experience, but in my mind, it was like, alright, life is short. You pushed yourself to the absolute limit. You kind of saw what that look like. You have more to give than what you're doing in your regular life. Like why don't you give more and do things that really make you feel whole and good and go for that and that will be the life that you live and not this? Well, I get this really good job and I got great benefits. My 401k is like looking great. No, it's like a really about like, how much can you Share, like I like going back to like, how much can you give to others? Like how can you help other people figure out what's off in their life and like maybe be a source of comfort and get them into that state that you keep tapping back into with your brain where you're relaxed, and you actually like, have no fear, you have like, understandable fears that you like, confront them, and you have those moments of like, pure bliss and euphoria. And you realize, like, hey, I can, I can do a lot with my life. And I don't just have to go to work, and look forward to the moment that the baby goes to sleep and watch Netflix. And that's the highlight of my day and my existence. Like there's actually a lot more to life than that. But you know, like we said, we're conditioned for comfort, we're not conditioned for discomfort, though I would say on another level, we're actually designed for very high level stress, like we're designed to go out and climb mountains, we're designed to go out and ski and backcountry ski and get into ice baths and get into sauna and sit in Hot Springs, like our bodies actually will feel better if we're doing those types of things, or we're doing them consciously and in a way that's safe. And and you know, to me, that's that's important is to tap into those other layers of stress. Because I can tell you, my bed when I got back to my small New York apartment after the mountain had never felt so good. It never I never was as appreciative to be in my own bed with my wife with our cat as I was that night. Like it almost brought tears to my eyes, even talking about it now, like I can feel that like that like emotion there. Because sometimes you need something to really put things in perspective. And you really need to kind of push yourself in a way that's safe, obviously. I mean, maybe that mountain experience wasn't the safest, but it forced me to kind of like reevaluate everything. And I think that's good to have in life. Like I think it's good. I think it's good to reset and like do things like you know, a lot of people I know that pandemic have gotten divorced or have moved across the country and we moved across the country, you know, like having to reset and re establish yourself and start from scratch. That's not the scariest thing in the world. The scariest thing in the world is staying in a shitty situation that makes you feel bad, it makes you feel like you're not living up to your full potential. That to me is a scarier situation, staying in a mediocre less than average subpar existence for 8090 years of being miserable and slowly like dying a slow death like that I'd rather die on a fucking mountain. And I'd rather die doing what I love to do and feeling like my life, even if it was short impacted more people. I'm not saying like I have a death wish or anything like that, like I'm a pretty safe person. But I'm not risk averse. I'm not scared to take chances and to go for things. And I think once I started doing Wim Hof breathing, to tie it back to that, I started getting comfortable in uncomfortable situations. And then I started going into the cold, I start getting even more uncomfortable and uncomfortable situations.

I started doing workshops in front of 2030 5060 people, I started getting really comfortable with that. And then all of a sudden, all these things that might be barriers to entries. No longer were barriers to entry. It's like I love that. Matthew McConaughey book green light because like green light green light just kept opening up the moment I started taking risks and taking chances and trusting myself and trusting my abilities, green light, like things open up and then all of a sudden, like, yeah, I can I can do a lot more than than what I was doing at at any of the jobs I had before. Like there's so much more available to me once I put myself out there and I actually go for things and I trust, my abilities, my skill, my understanding of my own experiences in life. And that's why when I teach workshops, to tie it back to workshops, like I don't teach people like the Wim Hof Method, like in terms of science, like I'm not going to pull out a slideshow and like show people like so this is what happens to your cardiovascular system. When you're doing well. I will tell you if you want to know if you ask me that, but what I want to tell you is hey, maybe there's more to life than what you're doing and maybe stepping outside your comfort zone for a little bit and expanding on that is actually going to help you live a healthier life. You know the motto and Wim Hof Method is healthy, happy, strong. Like I took that to heart when I first started doing the Wim Hof Method. Like that was something I wanted to live by even though I didn't know I was going to be an instructor and I was going to meet Wim and do all those things. I really just wanted to be healthy, happy and strong. And part of that for me is is living a life that's not not completely scared of risks, not completely scared to put myself out there not not timid to to fail, you know, to be okay to fail and and, you know, not climb every single mountain, you know, maybe, maybe not make it to the summit. But then what do you learn from not making to the summit? How do you bring that back down? You know, to sea level, like, how do you take that into your next endeavor.

Katie Graham

It's such great words of advice, I can relate so much to just being, and living and trying to stay and comfortable. And I've seen, like, recently I've done recently, in the last few years done a lot of reflection and living in fear, like, straight, you know, living in fear. And I'm just seeing it like Layers of Fear of kind of building this wall of protection. And just being afraid of messing up and, and taking the wrong step and getting uncomfortable. And it and I think, you know, like, I have such a beautiful life, and I have so much to be grateful for. But sometimes I feel like even that is like another wall of like, well, I'm so grateful I'm in such a good place, like, I've wealth, and I'm living in Park City, and it's like, and it's like, I shouldn't complain about anything, right? You know, I shouldn't like worry about all these layers of fear. And I should just be happy, and I should have joy. And, and it's, I think a lot of us feel that way as far as just living in this protection mode living in this place. And I think that's when we stay in this kind of mediocre level of life, exactly what you're talking about obvious, just what are the ways that we can break out of our shell just a little bit to just, you know, try and push us out of out and into kind of what we desire, because I think that was me, too, is like, I felt like something was wrong. And so that motivated me to change. And I still live in a lot of fear. You know, like getting better and better with each small step. But, you know, like, even standing up for myself and my own needs, like the other weekend, I had to do that to my spouse, and I don't do it. Like, I don't do that. And the way that I'm like, I can't go to this event, because I need it. I know what's good for me, I need to take care of my own needs. And I know I said I was gonna go and I had a commitment. And it's like, and then it's like this thing, like, you know, I'm hurting people. But it was really, I knew, you know, my heart strong, like I knew I was my intention was good. And I had to create that conflict, so I could take care of myself. And you know, it turned out like, it's a good thing. And but it's, you know, even just a small thing, like I say small, but like in that. And when I was doing like, doing that, like it was a really big thing for me to step up and be like this is I need to stay home this weekend, or like,

Avi Greenberg

people pleaser. And I'm just saying like you don't you feel guilty. Like I used to talk about therapy, like my biggest motivation, or motivating factor in life was guilt, like I felt guilty. So I didn't want to let my dad down. So I got a job that I hated to try to make money that I thought he'd be happy with. I didn't want to let an ex down. So I did things with her that I didn't want to do. I didn't want to let friends down. So instead of canceling with them, I saw them and did things I didn't want to do. And it's like this driving force of guilt. And then you're not putting yourself first you're not speaking your voice and like letting your voice be heard that you don't want to do something. And like when I was young, I was always like having FOMO and I didn't want to miss out on anything. I said yes to everything, like this kind of effort attitude. And I started to learn like there was a power and saying, you know, like not notice everything, obviously, but notice things that you're indecisive about. You're like, Oh, should I hang out with this friend tonight? Or should I do this thing that I don't really want to do? But I feel bad? It's like Benetint No, then it's a no like, if it's a no, if it's kind of like a not a hell yes. And it's a no in some ways and being okay with that and being okay that like if something doesn't work for you, and having people around you that that respect you enough and care for you enough to say, well, Katie knows what's best for her. Like, if she doesn't want to go to this event or she does want to go to this weekend thing, then that's okay. And if there's people in your life and I'm not telling you to not be with your spouse or whoever but like having dialogue so there's an understanding there and like that communication is like important and like being able to express why it doesn't work for your why it's best for you not to do certain things like that's okay to have those conversations and that's okay to to feel like initially like you're letting people down but Oh, Ultimately, if you're not showing up for yourself and taking care of yourself in the way that you're supposed to, then eventually you're going to start to like the grudge people around you, you're going to start to like, hold resentment towards other people, if you're doing things all the time that don't actually like uplift you or make you feel good. And not that everything in life has to make you feel good. But if you're spending most your life doing the opposite of that, then you're probably going to be pretty toxic and angry after about it after a certain period of time. So there is a certain limit, I think, that US people pleasers and US people that don't want to let other people down. Like, we've got to draw the line. And actually, I struggle with that, too. I mean, I now work mostly privately, and I have clients that I talk to, sometimes out of session, and they really want my guidance and talk to me and tell me what's going on and text me that their kids sick, or this or that and it's sometimes it's too much, sometimes I have to be like, Hey, listen, I have to draw a line here. Like, this isn't our session, like, I appreciate what you're going through. But I don't want to let people down. But I also, if I, if I don't take better care of myself, and I don't give myself boundaries and space, then I'm not going to be good at my job, because I'm gonna start to resent the job, because it's going to be too much, it's gonna be too taxing on me, and it's not going to allow me to be there in my house the way I want to be, or there at the workshops, when I have to give my full effort, you know, and it's, it's, it's a matter of drawing that line and having some, some respect for your own needs. Because if you don't respect your own needs, and why would anybody else, you know, like, why is Why is anybody else gonna say, well, Katie, Kay probably just needs to chill this weekend or whatever, whatever the case may be, it's important because for you to show up in the way that you want to, to do the things to take the courses to interview people to do the activities that get you excited that make you do, you know, have the life that you want, you have to preserve your energy, you have to preserve that, and you have to be mindful of what you need to and I listen, I'm still struggling with this, I don't speak about it from like a authoritative state, like, you know, I speak to this, because it's something I have to tell myself to do. Because it can get tricky. And it can be a slippery slope, especially when you're a people pleaser. And especially when you're trying to help as many people as possible and be like a guide, or, you know, someone that's altruistic like you have to. And it's like, when I go back to New York, like I'm going back tomorrow, and I want to book private sessions with one on one clients, I want to see some my friends, I want to see some family, but like, I can't do everything. Like if I do everything, I will be exhausted, and then I will come home and I'll be a wreck. But if I'm smart about my time, and I see the people that I need to see or do the work that I need to do, and I take time to say no to other things and say, hey, it's not going to happen this trip, really sorry, I thought we were gonna be able to make it work, but it's just not going to happen. And if that person wants to give me a guilt trip, or give me a hard time, that's on them, that's their own issues. That's not my issue is like I have a finite period of time to get what I need done. My priorities. And I think it helps having a family in some ways, because it really gives you like, a very specific, like group to take care of, you know, it's like, I'm

take care of myself, my wife, my daughter, that's it. Like beyond that, like, yeah, I have a sister that I love more than anything. And I have a dad and a mom and other things, but like, in terms of like this trip to New York, like, I gotta do it, I gotta do like, I'm there to make things happen. I'm there to like, build what I'm doing. But I'm also there to, to not completely exhaust every ounce of energy, I have to come home to be flat.

Katie Graham

Yeah, no, I, I don't think any of us or authority figures on these kinds of topics, because it's just, we're just all humans, and we're just all trying to do the best that we can, and interact in the relationships that we can. And the best way and I always believe that relationships are meant to be healing. So they're kind of the things that bring us down on our knees because there's something that we need to heal from, and there's something they need to heal from, and we're probably coming at it from opposite ends. And so understanding I think, like, for me, just learning to stand up for myself, there's two things that are really important is, the first thing is just knowing the goodness and everyone's heart and just know and I love to look at people and just see their innocence because we all have big hearts and you know, we're all in a sense, and if somebody gets triggered or has a judgment or something like that's just them trying to heal and that's just them trying to grow and, and it's it really does have nothing to do with you. And actually it can be if you're kind of standing up for your own needs and that way it's like that can actually also help them grow too. Oh, so anyway, seeing the innocence and then that was the second thing is just understanding that there's growth and meaning and relationships and kind of, I think the more that we can take responsibility for our own selves and our own happiness, yeah, I actually really reflect back to them. I think that's

Avi Greenberg

important. Because really, it comes down to you like, you can't, you can't hold other people accountable for for your happiness and like your jobs and things like that, like it's ultimately up to you. And you have you have that autonomy to decide whether or not you're going to be happy. And something in the first part that you said that it reminds me of is my, my sister actually used to play these deep Deepak Chopra, like, like, songs that songs are on Spotify, they're basically like, he's just talking in this really poetic way about life about people, and you just listen to it to calm you down. And she used to plan for her dog when she'd leave the apartment. So the dog could be this car. And one of the things that he would say that we always joke because my sister does imitations, while she would say, like, everyone is doing the best, or the best that they know how to do, like, they're, we're all trying to do the best that we can, even if someone's like, screw you over at work, or a partner or a friend, whatever. Like, in their mind, they think they're doing maybe, I mean, you know, but ultimately, like, you have to trust your gut, and you have to trust your instinct. And I think that that's, that's the most important thing, because like, if your gut and your instinct and your intuition is telling you not to do something, or, you know, I've had a lot of back and forth and ups and downs with people in the wellness space, like coming from New York, and, you know, spaces and facilities that, you know, I thought would be good fits for me, and it doesn't work. And instead of always like giving people the benefit of the doubt, just trusting that like, hey, this didn't feel right, something fell off. And that's okay, like, I can step away from this and I can find somewhere else to work out of, and being okay with that, that again, it goes back to that like abundance scarcity mindset, like, you know, if something doesn't work, or doesn't feel right, or doesn't feel like it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a good situation, to be okay to walk away from it. And know that there'll be another good situation that will present itself, you just keep doing what you're supposed to do. And you keep working and you keep putting yourself out there and keep talking to people, you'll, you'll find the spaces or the people that you want to be around that you want to work with, even if you have to take some hits. And, you know, not not make or not do the things that you want to do right off the bat like trust in your abilities and what you're capable of. And it will, it will align.

Katie Graham

Totally oh my gosh, yeah. It goes back to that, like allowing yourself to be uncomfortable and allowing yourself to fail and, and trusting in your heart and trusting you're doing the right things. Yeah, it's like kind of full circle to because I just feel like breathwork is just another tool that we have. This allows us to work through some of these things and whatever. Like whatever you need to heal from, it will come up and it'll feel like it's just your willingness to look at your fear in the face and be like, Okay, this is like, this is some radical honesty time that I need. But it'll show up like it's not that won't, like hit you in the face. It's there. It's just a lot of us choose to walk away.

Avi Greenberg

You sometimes have to go towards your fear, though. You have to go to the Oh, yeah, the things that that freaked you out the most and just realize like, hey, it's not it's not that bad. Or, hey, it was bad. But I learned something. And I can go back at it.

Katie Graham

Yeah, yeah, I was looking at myself in the mirror for 30 days and reading affirmations to myself. And I can tell you that the fear and like the I felt horrible the first week I did it, like, that's just a good example of like, imagine that's, yeah, it was rough. But it's like, like that happens first. Like, you have to move through that uncomfortable to get to the side of the really good stuff, like the really juicy stuff. So yeah, for sure. Kind of an example. But yeah, I know, we only have a few more minutes. And I'm gonna put all of these like little breaths. Like we didn't really get into the specific breathwork, which is totally fine. I think we got into some awesome topics. So we'll, we might have to do another interview, but I'll put them in the show notes. And we can kind of collaborate obviously, if you have like a book or an article or something. And I'll just put those references in there. If people heard something, and they're like, oh, I want to look into that specific technique. I'll have that in the show notes. But yeah, before we leave, I love to ask each guest what is their specific daily wellness routine? Just to give us a little inspiration and then And after that, just let us know what the best way to contact you, Avi okay.

Avi Greenberg

Yeah. Cool. Yeah, I'll definitely send you some some breath techniques for people that are listening that are interested in any books in terms of my routine. So I'm an early riser, I have my first session three days out of the week, typically, like 5:30am, Mountain Time, normally up around five 515. And unfortunately, you know, part of my work right now is like, I have to be in front of the computer. So I have this light that I use this light box, that helps kind of create more light, my eyes sort of wake me up and make me feel alert. So I use this light box first thing in the morning in my sessions, after I'm done with my morning sessions, normally, it could be around like 6:37am. Mountain, I will. I have a red light to use red light therapy by this brand called luminous red, that I really like. Yeah, they're great, too. It's an Austrian couple that that creates these lights. And I use near and far infrared with the lights. And then so I'll do that for 10 minutes a go upstairs, I try to have at least like a 16 ounce bottle of water. Sometimes I'll do hot water and lemon to start the morning off. And then you know, my my daughter's awake. So I'll normally just like hang out with her. And I'll bring her out to the front yard. And we'll just walk around barefoot in the front yard. You know, I started doing this when she was really small and just to get her sunlight in her eyes and like kind of like, put her outside. If it's cold, I bundle her up. I don't you know, she's not doing like Wim Hof chest, bare chest, you know, front yard walks. But we go on the front yard, we both put our feet in the grass and just kind of let her like move around a little bit. And then come inside. And and normally I tried to work out like somewhere between the time of like nine to like noon, like that's kind of my window for exercise. So whether it's like a jujitsu, or it's run or a backyard workout or yoga class, I tried to do something in that window. And after that, I'll probably do like an ice bath and sauna session. If I have time, and I don't have to work, go back to work right away. You know, there's days where I get up at 5:30am. And I have five sessions before 10am. You know, so I'm like 5:30am 6am 7am 8am 9am 10am, break, workout, whatever it is hot yoga, Jujitsu, you know, and then I'll probably have something to eat after that. And then I'll try to do that that breathing exercise that I mentioned the five and five out. I'll maybe read for a little bit before I do the before I do the exercise. I'm reading the Steve Jobs biography lately, I found I sometimes like I'm looking at a stack of like nervous system breathing books on my desk. And I've read a lot of them. And I've also read parts of some of them. And some of them I haven't touched. Because all I do most of the time is talk about breathing, the nervous system and all this stuff. So sometimes it's hard for me to get through these books. And I do enjoy to read. So I sometimes have to read something that's totally different. And try to like make lines to what I do. So even the Steve Jobs book like I've made aligned to my own work. And it's been really helpful if I've used it, it's a mentality in the last two, two workshops. And it's been really great to like bring that thought to it. And, and so then, so then yeah, and then I try to eat early dinner, like you know, get out for a walk with my wife and the baby take her to the playgrounds, we're on like five, four or five, have dinner around six. And then like kind of wind down I really like

doing using using guasha for you know are doing guasha for for like lymphatic drainage and for circulation. So I'll do that sometimes at night. I do it in the sauna too. And I try to you know, try to be in bed by like, nine anywhere from nine to 10pm I found them happier when I go to sleep early. I'm less likely to eat late at night, if I go to sleep early if I like hit my first sleep window, which is typically around nine 930 I tend to sleep better. So especially getting up early in the mornings like if I know I have a 5am Wake up call, like to stay up till 1030 or 11 and watch some you know 90 Day fiance or trashy TV it's like what's the point? So that's that's kind of been the routine now for the last two or three months and that comes and goes like there's times where I am not doing the red light or I'm not doing the workouts or I'm staying up later. You know now the seasons are changing and it's getting staying laid out later. It's hard to go to bed like the sun just went down or our baby just goes down at like seven or eight like I want to Couple of hours to just chill with my wife. So it's tough, it ebbs and flows, I think it's good to not be super dogmatic that I have to get up, I've got to do this, I got to do that. Like, once you have a baby, or, you know, we all went through this weird pandemic, like, your routines and the things that keep you whole. If you can't be fluid with them, then you're going to be in trouble at some point, because at some point, something's going to change, and you're not going to be able to do the thing that's keeping you whole. So you need a few things, you need to do things. So even some days, it's like, hey, like, you know, it's raining out. So I'm not gonna go for that morning, walk with my daughter, I'm going to, you know, maybe sit in front of the red light a little bit longer. I'm going to do more breath work in the morning and just be flexible and be able to flow within like, maybe go out for a hike and skip jujitsu and like be out in nature and be off the phone. So being able to flow is kind of is kind of part of the routine as well like being able to adjust as needed.

Katie Graham

Yeah, yeah. And I can tell that abundance mindset in it and the flow and ease like it's beautiful. And I'll put some of those you just reference like the light box and the luminous red or the luminous red. It's red. Yeah. And the and though thing for the limp, lymphatic

Avi Greenberg

guasha Gu, a space SHA, and I like a company called Wildling. But there's a lot of great companies with guasha. Stones. And I tend to try to do those types of activities because I find a lot of enjoyment of them.

Katie Graham

Awesome. Perfect. And then yeah, I'll put all your contact information, Avi in the show notes as well. And any like once this episode comes out, if there's any workshops or anything that you're doing, I'll put that in there. Cool. And so people can reach out to you and check out your website. And yeah, so I'm just it was such a pleasure having you. Thank you so much for being here today.

Avi Greenberg

My pleasure. You're really great interviewer and you're asked great questions and all of it. So I really, really did enjoy as a fun conversation.

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