58. Body Peace: End The War With Food and Body / Nina Manolson
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Nina Manolson is a Body-Peace® coach. She helps people end the war with food and body and finally feel truly at home in their body—as it is. She is known for her deeply feminist, anti-diet, body-peace approach. She brings her 30 years experience as a therapist, Nationally Board Certified Health & Wellness Coach, Body-Trust® Guide and Psychology of Eating Teacher to helping women create a respectful and trusting relationship with their food and body.
Nina Manolson
It is a delight delight to be with you, Katie Kay
Katie Graham
Yeah, it's so wonderful to have you. And I just think that the work that you're doing is so powerful, and also just so relatable. And I really want to dive into the body piece, the body poems, and just what we can do to really create a more positive relationship with our body and then also with food, because both of them really important. So, but I would love to start I would love to start with the story of how Nina you got into this, like, why are you so passionate about helping women and healing our relationship to body and food?
Nina Manolson
Yeah, so the reason that I'm so passionate about helping others is because it was my own personal journey. Right? So I grew up in Montreal, and there was a French saying, Jim, Assam b&o my PO, it means I feel good in my skin. And I would hear people say that and I had no clue what the heck that meant. Because I since I was nine years old was on a diet. So what do you mean comfortable in your skin? You're always supposed to be this is what I learned, right? through osmosis through my mother through you know, the culture, you're always supposed to be managing your body. You were always supposed to be a self improvement project. You are always supposed to be working on yourself. So feeling good in your own skin. What do you mean you're supposed to be trying to be better? You're supposed to try to be thinner and more toned and by all the things that are idealized beauty culture holds up as a very high gold standard. And so I didn't feel good in my own skin. And I always lived in compare and despair, right? Oh, see? They've got a small body and my body is not okay, it's too good. curvy. Oh, see? They're tall blonde and thin. Oh, I'm not right. It was always the eye coming out less than and so a lot of my personal journey was how do I be okay? In this home in this body in this skin? Because it's all we got. Right? This is our one home. This is what we get.
Katie Graham
Yeah, yeah, beautifully said. Talking about that the train the trying to improve always working hard. It's like this mentality that is just kind of drilled into our heads that the only way to success. The only way to lose weight is to just work your ass off. Cut those calories work harder. And and then As all as you're gonna feel comfortable in your skin, and you're gonna feel confident and look good, and all the things that we do want, and I don't think that any of those intentions are ill willed, I think it's like, we all of course, want to show up feeling good in our bodies with, you know, confidence and how we love and how we feel. And so I guess one of the words that you said is toned, like being toned, like that's such a kind of word that we use, and it's like, what does that even really mean? But I did hear back from one of the listeners, and it's like, well, I just want to fit into any of the clothes and just feel like I'm fitting into the clothes, I feel comfortable. And I feel good. So yes, of course, like, that totally makes sense. I can totally relate to that. So Nina, like, what? How do you approach that? If somebody wants to feel good, they want to feel tone and maybe want to lose weight? What is your approach? And how do you help them maybe achieve that goal? Or maybe you focus more on like, Well, why do you really want this? And, yeah, tell me a little bit about your process.
Nina Manolson
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But Katie, first, I want to, like yellow highlight or something you said, which is that trying that we do? Right, which is Renee Brown calls it the hustle for worthiness, right? If I could just be thinner than I would be worthy. If I could just fit into all my clothes in the closet, then I will be worthy, then I will get the stamp of approval from the rest of the world, then I won't be judged or even perceived that I'll be judged, then I will, what you spoke into is this idea that the promise, right? The promise that our culture gives us? If we're thin, then right then what? Then we have social currency, right, that we walk into a room? Oh, am I thinner than her? I'm bigger than her, am I you know, we start into that compare to spare again. So that hustle that trying? All that takes a tremendous amount of energy, that hustle for worthiness, right? We're obsessed with? What did we just eat? And what did we did we work out enough and the calories and the grams and the carbs and all of that become so time? Overwhelming, it just is a it's an energy leak in our life? If you think about it, what could you do with all the energy that you put towards? Should I have eaten that? Should I have not eaten that? What about this other thing? Right? Oh, what am I going to wear to that wedding? That's going to make me look 10 pounds thinner? Right? All of that energy saps us of our power of who we are, as we are? And to come back to your question. So what if we want to change? Right? What if we want our body to be different, we can want whatever you want. Right? Like we're free will, you can want to have, you know, $5 million, you can want to be thinner, you can want a Missouri wanting. Sure. You can want a cookie, you can desire, whatever you want. And then let's look at how to get what you want, and why we're going towards that particular thing. So if I say okay, I would like to lose X amount of pounds. Okay, let's look at that. So first of all, have you tried before? How's that gone? How has that felt for you? Right? Has it felt, which for many people? Has it put you on the site cycle? Which is that? Oh, I'm at the top? You refer to that in the beginning, right? That sort of like I'm on, I'm off, I'm on I'm off. The diet cycle is oh my gosh, I'm so excited. I got a new plan. I'm gonna get thinner. And by the wedding, I'm going to look so fantastic. And it's gonna be awesome. And I'm on this diet and I'm feeling like in control, I got this, I got this, I got this. Then
life happens. I'm feeling controlled. I'm no longer in control of feeling controlled. The diet is threatening my sense of autonomy. Humans do not do well. When our sense of autonomy is being threatened. You're going to tell me what to do. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Our inner rebel comes up and goes, you. This is not happening. If I want that brownie, I'm eating that brownie. You can't tell me not to have that brownie but we've got the inner rebel comes up. We've got the inner little kid that comes out We've got that fight for autonomy that comes up that diet doesn't stand a chance. So then we're eating and because we've deprived ourselves, now we're swinging into, like, celebratory eating, oh my gosh, I'm free. Yay. Finally, tada, I'm off this diet isn't this great? Ah, relief. And then now we're at the bottom of the cycle. Oh, my gosh, I can't believe I failed. Again. What's the matter with me? I can't believe I really wanted to be thin. And now I just feel worse. And I feel like a failure and my self esteem. Even though I'm perfectly capable in 100 different ways in my life. I feel terrible about myself, because I couldn't stay on this diet. Now we're on the upswing. So what am I going to do about it? Oh, I know. I'm going to look for another diet because that's what our culture does here. We've got paleo for you. We've got keto. We've got Atkins, we've got, I don't know, juice fasts. We've got a zillion diets to make you feel like you could actually control, restrict, and determine exactly how much you can eat every single day, which is just not living. It's dieting. That's not life. That's restrictive. That's no fun. So it's a long way around. How do we make the changes? First, we have to look at what's our history with this? And is this a technology that works, right? If I'm trying to make a movie on my computer, and I go every time into some old version of iMovie? And I'm like, What the heck is wrong with iMovie? I don't understand. It's not working. It's not working. But everybody says it's supposed to work. But it's not working. Finally, I'm gonna go this technology isn't working. Something's wrong with the technology. It's not me. It's actually my technology is faulty. The technology of dieting is faulty, right? 95% of people who go on diets gain their weight back, if not more weight in two to five years, right? These are from studies this, this, these results. So to look at diets and go, This is not a technology that works. So if what I'm trying to do is lose weight. Well, so and the technology of dieting is kind of archaic and out of date, frankly, and some new guy comes up with some book that says no, no, it's not out of date, though. Follow me I can show you how. But it worked for his body, but it's not going to work for yours. To go Wait, okay, so what do I want out of dieting? Am I looking for social acceptance? Right? If I did, this is the promise of diets, right? If I die, it will every will I find love? If I die? It will people think I'm more powerful social currency. Right? If I die, it will. I feel more like I'm in control of my life and have feel like I have more agency in my life. What am I trying to achieve? Right? So the idea being if we take dieting if we're here and we have a desire for change, and we put dieting as the next step. The step after that is failure and diet cycle. If we put dieting over there and go and start to explore what is it that I want? am I wanting vitality? am I wanting energy? And am I wanting to feel fantastic in my body? Let's put the goals for what you want here. Then we can find the technology and the process and the inner work and the healing to get you here.
Katie Graham
Yeah, oh my gosh, it makes so much sense to put what we truly desire in front of the process right? I feel like we put the diet the process in front of it thinking that it'll loop back to get us where we want but why don't we just ask for what we want and then work back from there. I love how you're talking about that Nina it makes so much sense to me. I wish I would have known that you know when I was struggling in college and got into that loop cycle and I'm sure a lot of listeners feel the same way in this idea what you were talking about this control mentality I think that's a big one. Especially for me that I feel like I've gotten wrapped up in and and yeah, I've heard from a lot of the guests to like when they're telling their stories like control comes up a lot like this control mentality. We want to stay in control. How do we get more control especially really around food, like, that's going to be one topic I want to dive into, as well. But what I have found, and I'm still working on it, it's a day to day process a day to day surrender, but it's the letting go of my tight grip on what I won, and what I'm trying to succeed and the podcast and, you know, eating healthy and exercising all the things that I easily could wrap my hands around and grasp on to control around, the more that I can really sink into a space of just love, like, just my only purpose to guide me is having just, my only job is to love and the podcast and my body, and the way I approach my life and my relationship. And, and like it's almost sinking into just like the ease and flow of life. And, you know, just believing that I'm being guided, and I can just ease into it. And I don't always have to use my own strength to know everything and do everything. And it's like, I think that that mentality has really helped ease my way through, you know, just finding a deeper sense and deeper intention with my body and, and my approach to food and work and everything else is just like, yes, like, it's like, I've tried the control, like I've gone that way, and I've lost weight, and I was not happy at all, I was less happy. And I've also gone on a total other side of the spectrum where I'm just like, eff it, like I'm just gonna eat whatever and, and, you know, that was actually in the process, beginning of my intuitive eating, which actually was really healing for me. But that also is not a solution of just like letting go. But I think that is also there's a happy medium with control, you can have control, but also have that kind of ease and balance and alignment. So I know it'd be really ambiguous but Nina maybe. So
Nina Manolson
so there's a wonderful, one of my colleagues, who does Body Trust work, which is also Body Trust provider. She does this beautiful gesture with her hands, that really speaks to it. And I'll try to describe what I'm what I'm doing, which is we can go around like this, right? Let me just pick up a pen, right trying to hold on, trying to hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on to control tight fists, trying to hold on to that pen, the control, I've got Life, My expectations are hard. I'm in the hustle for worthiness. I'm going I've got it, I've got it right, then this gets this tightness gets to be too much. And we're like, forget it. And we let go, right? I've just forget it and the pens drop and all the balls drop. And we're like, oh my gosh, life is out of control. Wha. But there's a place in between what you're talking about, which is not the tight. Not the letting go. But this let me hold? right let me put something better in my hands. That's more elegant. Let me just hold right, self compassion. Let me hold myself in this journey of being in this body. In this one lifetime that I get. I let me hold myself with tenderness, with compassion, with kindness, and with some perspective, that the expectations come in, from our culture. From a culture that's geared towards let's make money, let's make it to the top. Let's live the dream was like wait a second. What does this one body need? What do I need right now to feel nourished? Right. So coming back to a loose grip, a gentle grip, right? Kindness at the table kindness with our body, not the Mean Girl approach, not the push push approach. Right? Not the critical approach. We want to be with kindness. And there's actually if I may, I think this might be a good I have a poem called kindness showed up on my plate. And if it's okay with you, can I share it with
Katie Graham
you? Above it? Okay.
Nina Manolson
So, it's called kindness showed up on my plate. Somewhere. Early on in my eating journey. I invited meanness to my table. I put judgment on lights ate at the end of every meal I put should have would have could have on every fork full of food. And every night before I went to bed I fed myself a few bites of shame, and repentant plans for tomorrow. All of it tasted so bitter, but I felt I deserved it. I felt that unless my body was small, smaller, smallest, my bites should be small, measured, restricted, but my bites were not. I ingested and digested heaps of body hate, until it made my tummy ache with sorrow and longing. I longed for delight at the table ease in my belly and self kindness. So I started to add and add in small bites of understanding, compassion, deep body listening, and the more I added in the more I helped myself to mounds of pleasure drenched with tenderness, the more I made time to sit at my table, my feelings, and let my body speak her story, then, and only then did kindness show up. Kindness showed up at the table. Hatred was no longer on the menu. Sometimes shame still ends up on my plate, but I know she does. It doesn't agree with me. So I politely say no, thank you, and ask for more compassion.
Katie Graham
Love that, but just like so. relatable, kind of like it hits your heart, like, oh my gosh, it's just, I know that shame and know that guilt. So well. Bit by bit like each bite. And just like the magic of it evolving and changing. And the kindness like the underlying theme of it's just, I like I want us all to get there, right? Like, I want us all to feel where it be. And
Nina Manolson
the Katie that's so important to say, write that you want that. And I also want to add that it's possible. It's really important for us to know, it's possible, because we're brought up in a culture where there are two kinds of relationships we can have with our body. One is, and this is one even though it sounds like to body hate and body shame, right? I feel bad about my body. That's one kind of relationship we're allowed to have. It's modeled, ate my belly. I don't like my butt. Right? The critical model. And then the only other relationship model that's shown us is body management. Right? Okay, be in control, get on the next detox, get on the next, you know, sign up for the next, you know, marathon or bootcamp, right. So we are taught as a culture, the way to be in a body is either hate your body, or have your body be a project. That's all we're shown. Right? Or on the other side, there's total body love. Now, what we want, and what I would love everybody to realize is there's other relationships we can have with our body, it's possible to have a relationship with our body that feels compassionate, that feels respectful, that feels nourishing, the feels peaceful, right? That's why I call my water my my body of work, body peace. We can have that relationship and often I find like, you know, people talk about being body positive or body love and, and often for many people have struggled like I did, like you did with their relationship with body and food. Body love can feel a little like lala land, you know, like rainbows and unicorns and unattainable. But that's not true. Well, it is true body peace can feel unattainable. But what's not true is that there isn't. Let me say that again. What is true is that we can have a relationship that feels sustainable daily, write the kind of relationship that lasts a lifetime that isn't a roller coaster ride of diets, that isn't a roller coaster ride of a hit my body and love my body. It's no it's like a real relationship in life. You go through ups and downs. And that's what we have, right? If of all the things we've been talking about, if there's anything I would want anybody to take away is that we're having a relationship with our body. And we get to determine and sometimes we need help or coaching to help that happen, but we can impact the kind of relationship we have with our body. We can make a difference how we talk to our body, how we unpack some of the body's stories, our trauma around our body. how we feel the grief of not having that perfect movie star body. Right? Really being in a real relationship, a real relationship requires feelings requires vulnerability. That's what we want to cultivate with our relationship with our body.
Katie Graham
It's so good, Nina, because it's like this freedom. And you're in just you saying there's other ways. There's other relationships that we can have with our body. It I imagine this bubble around each of us, like we're kind of in this confined container. That's actually making our whole life that small. So we're living in this small space. And it's like, oh, my gosh, Nina just went and pop the bubble. And it's like this expansion of like, yes, there's other ways that you can have a relationship with your body. And I know how the ego like, I know how the subconscious thoughts just scream at you to say, you know, like, no, no, no, like, this is how we're going to do it. This is how you're going to stay comfortable. This is how you're going to stay safe, you're going to be protected. And, like, I just invite the listeners to notice that like, notice those thoughts, because obviously, there's something that you want to change, right? There's something that you want to break free of. So just what Nina was talking about was coming back to that intention of like, what is it that you want to feel like, what is it you desire? And then no, there's more options out there, than what might be presented to yourself right now. And especially what your thoughts are telling you were like, Oh, that's not gonna work, or no, we got to stay here. It's like, I've been through that, like, I know what, like, my thoughts like are on rampage. And they didn't want me to change. And I had to have like, coaches and people there and that support system to help me step out of my own way, and really, you know, create the change that I desired. Yeah, Nina, do you have anything? I know you're?
Nina Manolson
So Katie, I did. I wrote notes. And I'm nodding, because as you said, there was a couple of things you said, stay safe, stay protected, stay comfortable. If you think about how we're talking about the kind of relationship, this the small world relationship of body hate and body management, it's very much like, and this is literally the words of one of my clients. She said, Oh, my gosh, I have been in an abusive relationship for 30 years, with my own body. Right. So if we said to people in the world, you know, the only kind of relationships you can have are ones where the other person makes you feel bad about yourself, and where you feel like exhausted and beat up on every day, or you could hustle to try to make them like you every single day. You'd be like, Are you kidding me? No, there are other relationships. There are relationships that are intellectually stimulating and relationships that are delicious and playful and sensual. And there are relationships that are exploratory and exciting, and we travel the world. And there are there's a zillion different kinds of relationships that are way better than that abusive relationship. Right? We know that. But we know that we hopefully are not settling for that abusive relationship with another human. We should not be settling for an abusive relationship with ourselves. There absolutely are other choices. And it is just like you said, that feeling we want to stay in those because it seems like it's safe. It seems like it's protected. It seems like it's comfortable because our unwanted eating behavior. And our self hatred often covers up a lot of feelings, right? When we start walking on this path of body peace, whether we're exploring intuitive eating or attuned eating or compassionate eating or connected eating are all the other ways that I work with my clients. There's feelings in there, we have used food, not because it just happens to be there. And we're that sort of idea of weak willed no it because it's because it's served us. It's turned the volume down on the intensity of life. It's made us feel safe. It's given us something to moderate our nervous system. Our trauma got dampened down, right. It's the way we actually took care of ourselves. And it's so important to realize that all of our unwanted eating behavior, has wisdom has a message And so instead of like, I'm gonna just hammer that away, like, down you go you binge eating you secret eating you, late night eating you all the all the kinds of unwanted eating behaviors that are instead of like, I'm gonna just put you in the closet and shut that wasn't going. No, we need to listen. So what are you about? What are you telling me? Why are you here? Because they are those unwanted eating behavior habits are there because they're trying to tell us something? And it does require slowing down and listening. And I do recommend getting support.
Katie Graham
Yeah, yeah, I can totally relate to there's feelings underneath that, that are not being addressed. And we are covering it up with distractions with our body, with judgments when they get tivity to cover up, like what's really underneath that we need to look at. And maybe we have fear or shame or just not willing to connect to those feelings, maybe just like they're keeping them in the dark. And I know I've done that before. And it's, I'm giving them more power. Right, I think I am giving them the my fears more power and control over me. And, and yeah, like us food, and I use social media, and I use my computer and work ways of distracting myself from like, what's really there, like what I really need to address. And as I've progressed through healing and changing my relationship to my body and food, I notice when I kind of get thrown off balance, and maybe like I see my food eating patterns are different or something, something else is going on. That's not normal. I now go back to my spiritual practice. And it's just like, it's a total different perspective of looking at it. But I know that okay, like, you know, I feel really sluggish today. You know, it didn't go exercise, I ate more whatever, like, okay, Katie, like, now it's time to sit on my meditation cushion, do a meditation, right? And journal, like what's happening? What's there? Like, what are those feelings? And then, you know, I feel lifted. And it's like, the next day I'm back in it. But that is a new, like, that's a great example of just a different perspective of looking at it. Because if I would have been trapped in that negative cycle, I would have been in the judgment, and then I would have been like, I need to work harder, I need to try harder tomorrow, I need to wake up at 6am and go to that yoga class. And like, remember that you can just tell from like, my voice, it's like, exhausting, and it never,
Nina Manolson
never ends. And one of the ways you just said you use a beautiful example, how to get yourself off that hamster wheel of like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I did that. Okay, now. So what am I going to do to make up for that? And now? Oh, my gosh, now I'm exhausted. I like to get off of that hamster wheel. Right? It requires a pause. Right? And a question of what's up? Like literally asking yourself, what's up? What's going on? Right? What do I really need right now? Right? And you may not know it might be I don't know what I need, but putting on the table, your needs I have needs here. Because when those unwanted eating behaviors happen when you just a five brownies, and you're like what happened? Like, I don't even remember eating those five brownies. But the plate was full. Now it's empty. What happened? So it's going wait a second. What do I need right now? What am I feeling? What would nourish me? Just asking. It's it's literally, if you were sitting across from a kid at a table, and they were just snarfing everything on the table, right? You'd go, honey, what's up? Anything you want to tell me? Anything happening that you want me to know about? You get curious? Right? That's the operative word here. Curiosity, not judgment, not going into overdrive. What's going on? Right? It's a lot of what we do with my clients. What happened there? Like I binged a lot, okay, what happened? What happened before that? What happened before that? Oh, crap, I got this call from my dad. And he was like, really on this rampage about this other thing. I Baba, blah, blah, blah. And then I just got so mad. And then I call my sister and then she had a reaction to it. But that was last week. I was like, okay, so then tell me about the rest of the week. Well, then I just went to work and it was so stress, stress, stress, stress, stress. I said, Did you ever talk to anybody about that conversation about your feelings and No. So what happened to all those feelings? Right? They got submerged. And then there was a pause, oh my gosh, here I am at this party by a nice buffet table. And I don't understand why I just ate half the buffet table. Oh, there was a moment I let down. And those feelings, even though I didn't know it was connected to that phone call. Those feelings of uncomfortable and being blamed and shamed came up. And I'm just going to turn the volume right down on that eating on that those on those feelings by eating, right, I'm going to turn the volume down on those feelings by eating because it works. It's not a technique that doesn't work. It just doesn't feel very good. Right? So it's not like blaming like, I can't believe you ate to turn those feelings down. That's not the answer, either. It's of course, right? That's what compassion sounds like. Of course, you reached out for food. There was a lot of feelings in there. And it was a hard place to suddenly go, oh, let me tell this other person at the cocktail party, about my dad and what he said and how I felt bad about it. Right? No, but there were the feelings. And I tamp them down. Bringing compassion. Bringing curiosity.
Katie Graham
Right. Right. It makes sense. Having a wholehearted approach for yourself and what you said, it's like, of course, you felt that way? How else could you have dealt with that any other way? That's full of compassion. And you know that you're a good hearted person, you know that your hearts in the right place, I think that's a beautiful way to begin is just trusting or like, believing in yourself, you know, like that, like you have a big heart. And, you know, what is it that you really want? And like, how do you really want to show up and start from there. It's just like that full of love and compassion. It's so beautiful.
Nina Manolson
But what you just did there, Katie was so powerful, right? You said, Oh, who I am is a full hearted human, to be able to say that requires zooming out, which sometimes we can do on our own. Sometimes it helps to have a coach to do that to go. Wait a second, is this the only thing that you are? Is someone who ate half the buffet table? Is that all of who you are as a human? Of course not. Right? But in that moment where like, my entire worth, is wrapped up in what I just ate, and how I'm going to make up for it. Right? But what you said is No, I am a whole hearted person. Let me zoom out, see the big picture. Right? See what happened with my dad or my partner or, or work see the fact that I have good intention to see the fact that I'm trying to protect myself by eating see the fact that I would like to have a different way of taking care of my needs in the world. Right? To allow ourselves to not be in the hustled for perfection, the hustle for worthiness, then achieving the expectations, right? All of that moves us into that high activation nervous system. Right? That sympathetic nervous system fight or flight. Oh my gosh, there is a tiger coming after me. Let me run like heck, because I'm gonna die if I don't. And so we're living life in that nervous system activation. And you know, what doesn't happen when we're in? Nervous system activation? Is digestion, metabolism, immune system, right? All of those things go off line. Enjoyment? Sure. Because we're in that fight or flight freeze flop fine. There's all sorts of reactions, different ways people react to stress. And so to say, oh, like literally, this is a really powerful technique. hand on heart. Oh, of course, it makes sense that you will behave that way. Seems like you're feeling a lot. And, and breathing slowly. And that helps us move from that nervous system. I am being chased and we'll die in a second. Okay, I'm a human being. Human beings require food. I'm somebody who gets to eat after I ate all that half half of buffet table. I still get to have breakfast tomorrow. Right? I'm a human being human beings have feelings. Right. Coming back to our humanity brings us back into a relationship, one of the things that brings us back to relationship with our body in a compassionate, caring, peaceful way.
Katie Graham
Right, totally. And it goes back to what I was saying at the beginning. It's like, when I remember that my only job is love, and how do I react to myself and my body, when I'm in that space, it's like, that's all I need to remember. And it keeps it simple in that way. And then I also see like, the more I focus on that space, and the love and compassion, it's like, I do get to my goals, or I do you know, live in a body that really makes me happy, really joyful, really feel connected, is when I'm in that space of love. And there's ease and grace with it. So it's, I guess my next question, Nina is how do you see that with your clients? Like, do you see them kind of melt into, like, almost this flow and ease with their eating with their body, and then does it almost just allow them to be where they want it like exactly where they want to be in their body. And, and, and I also, I guess, another piece of the equation that's just like been buzzing in my head is like, when you're in that place of alignment with your body. That is when you can open up to serve and be in purpose and find connection with the people that you love. Because not everything in your peer review is time and energy spent on fighting and abusing and struggling. So what do you I guess my question is, like, how is that evolution with your clients? And what do you see? Like, are they reaching their goals? And then how does that open up their life?
Nina Manolson
Yeah, so it's, it's, it's, uh, let me say this in a different way. So first of all, what I want to say is, it's actually an incredible privilege to be part of that process. It is such an honor to be let in to women's relationship with their body, it's really the most intimate relationship that we're having, is that relationship with our body? Right? And food is an extension, how we eat how we nourish ourselves, is an extension. So when women are in this process of walking this body piece path, it's a practice, right? So in the beginning, it can feel a little scary, like, what am I going to diet? What? How's that going to work? I'm not going to be in control of anything. And then in the beginning, there's often this like, celebratory like, Woohoo, I'm free, right? Like, let go. And then it's like, wait a second, then what grows is the superpower, right? interoceptive awareness. What do I feel inside? How do I feel when I eat? And that starts to develop? And then we start to have a juicy conversation, right? Do I want to eat this? How does that food make me feel? Does this food serve me? Do I want to just eat it? Because it's absolutely delicious? Do I want to eat it? Because I'm about to I don't know, I swim. So I always use swimming. So I'm about to go for a swim. And if I haven't eaten, I'm going to be a grouchy bear at the end. So I better eat something, right? It's a listening. What I see develops and women is this incredible, really connected conversation with their body. And when they're in that, then it's not this, like, ooh, should I eat it? Should I not need it? It's like saying, like, to a little kid, do you want to eat that? The kid goes, No, yeah, it's that kind of natural relationship. We get to know the sick the signals, this, the sensations, the messages of our body, so we can make choices that feel truly nourishing. And from that place, yes, a huge amount of energy is freed up I have a client who said, we started working and she was like letting go of the diet world and getting like she was in that freedom eating and she was like, you know, actually, I've been eating this thing. I don't really like it. I think I just ate it because I wasn't allowed to eat it for five years. 10 years. You know, she's like, so I was like, Okay, let's explore what foods do you actually like. And as she deepen in, she all this energy freed up, she went to an entire huge leadership training has grown her career. She was like, I just want to say when she was going into the leadership training, that was a big program. She was like, I just want to be clear. I could not have done this before. Because all my energy was spent on what am I going to eat? How am I going to eat it? How many pounds did I wait? Do I weigh how many pounds don't lose gain. It was all the space in my brain was food obsession. She's like now I just eat because I'm hungry because it's fun. I'm because I'm Oh, because I'm with friends, because because I gotta do something for four hours, I better eat now, like, I just eat because I'm a human, right? Yeah, I often say, We're humans, we need food to survive, we need to eat. So she says, I'm just eating because I'm a human. And because that is reclaimed, right? Our culture gave us that obsession. Just to be clear, yes, there might have been messages from your mother, from your father, from your peer group from your gym teacher. But it is a cultural conditioning that gave us that obsession. And frankly, and this is where I get into my feminist rant. Frankly, it was to make women feel bad about themselves so that their power is diminished so that we don't do the work that we need to do in the world. And when our energy is reclaimed from that we get to be powerful. We get to go out in the world and make the changes that we are uniquely equipped to make. So when you free yourself literally of the prison of food obsession, and body hate, your life opens up. Yeah, right. There's enjoyment. There's action, there's service, there's delight. There's all the things.
Katie Graham
Yeah. Oh my gosh, so powerful. Like Love your energy, Nina. And if you wouldn't mind, I'd love to share a little story that I think kind of incorporates into this. So I was at a bachelorette party, like just like a week ago. And so some, like my favorite girlfriends. And when I'm in that kind of place, I get back into my mentality of judging myself comparing myself like, that's a big one, like, Oh, I'm not as skinny as my friend, you know, I don't want to like call them out x or y, or z or whatever. And, oh, I'm the biggest girl here are oh, I just like, they look so cute. And it's so easy, blah, blah, blah. So you guys know, like, you get into that mentality. And I knew it was going to be a, you know, a struggle of a body image weekend for me. And so when I came home, I, you know, I was stuck in that. But like, I felt the judgment in my body, I felt the weight. And I just, like I had all those thoughts like, okay, like, I need to lose weight, like I need to be better. And it was just sparked from this, like, amazing weekend with these amazing women. Like, I love my friends so much. And I also know that they love me so much. And they would never judge me, they would never look at my body way and think that I was fat or like, you know, Judge me or think of me as any less than any of all of them. So I knew this in my heart. And so I let that uplift me. But I also knew that if I wanted to, this was a choice that I could decide, okay, I need to come back home, I need to exercise harder, I need to, you know, work on my eating, like, I need to bubble blah, blah, blah, like should, should should. And I knew that I could pick that. Or I also knew that I had powerful work that I needed to put out into the world, I knew that I needed to work on the podcast, I knew I had amazing interviews this week, I knew that, you know, all of that was just like I had to be in a high vibration in order to do that work and, you know, show up in the way that I want it to. So I kind of had these two options in front of me. And I, I have gotten to the place where I can have those options. And I can see it clearly. And I can step back. But I do think that I've been in a position where I didn't have that power. And I felt really not empowered and myself and I was already immediately when I got home, I was already consumed in that cycle of negativity. And it doesn't mean that I'm not going to come home and I'm not going to take care of my body. I'm not going to eat the foods that feel good. I'm not going to not attend my like favorite activities. I love going to yoga, I love mountain biking, it was none of that was gonna get interrupted. Right? It was just I wasn't deciding to get stuck in that negative cycle and continue that judgment because I knew my friends weren't judging me. I didn't need to judge me and the only question I need to ask myself is I Am I able to do the things that I love and my body was like, Oh my gosh, I'm able to do the activities that I love like that in itself like is so beautiful and amazing and like it's okay that I'm you know, whatever Wait, and I can love that. Like I can love whatever weight I'm at, because I'm honoring my body. And I'm just like ranting, but I just want to get across the point, Nina that you were talking about, because there's so much power in what you're talking about. And I think that each of us, well, I know that each of us deserve that. And I really believe each of us, has the responsibility to show up in the greatest light that we all possibly can be. And that's like, you can only be that if you are stepping in that direction, right? You have a choice to make to step in that direction of your purpose, and show up in light and love. Or you have the choice of choosing a different path. But I just think but like you saying that Nina is just like, so powerful. And we can just spread that message because it is like it's so, so needed.
Nina Manolson
Yeah, one of the things that you did Katie, which is so exquisite is you were really talking to yourself, like a good friend, you were being in relationship. And it wasn't like, oh, I can't believe you're down on yourself. It was no. So okay, so you're down on yourself. So tell me, what do you think your friends were really saying? And what's really true about you, right? And what do you really want to do with that energy? Right. And it's very important to be in that conversation with ourselves. Because it is easy to go down the spiral of shame, right into the shame pit. Right. So to, to be able to ask those questions. So like, Oh, and one of the other things that you did, which is you named your feelings? Oh, I'm feeling down. Oh, I'm comparing myself. Right. It's very important for us to actually listen to what we're saying to ourselves, and to call ourselves out, not in a critical way, but just go wow, that's really critical thinking. Wow, that's pretty mean. Right? It's so important, because what it does is it lets us then go, oh, that's what's happening. It becomes it goes from being unconscious, to conscious, right? And then once it's there in the light, right, then we can start working with it. Oh, okay. So you're thinking that everybody's judging you? Do you think that's true? And do a little reality checking? Right? Well, actually, my friends really liked me. I know, they like me, like, we've been friends forever. They tell me they love me all the time. So really, that's an old little your worm from my culture that says women should be at odds with each other women are in competition. Right? And if you if you'll indulge me, I have another body poem, I got exactly that thing. Is that okay with you? Yeah. So I didn't say this before. But the reason that I started writing two reasons I started writing body poems. One is my kids are slam poets. So they there was a stage where they're living at home, writing poems. And so it was sort of the language of our family became poetry for a while, and I started writing poems about my experience in my body. And I wanted to write poems so that we could start to change the conversation. We don't have words, for these different kinds of relationships with our body, we don't have ways to talk about the fact that we can think differently, feel differently, that we can talk about the things that we've never been able to talk about, which is how shameful people women especially feel about their bodies. So this poem is called, am I bigger than her? And I thought of it because of when you said, I walked into that room, and I'm like, Ah, doing the like, check her out, compare and despair bodies. So it's called a man bigger than her. Am I bigger than her? I asked my husband as a woman passes on the street. And my bigger than her, I asked myself as I walk into the room measuring up all the women. Am I bigger than her? I look at a picture of younger me a memory on Facebook from years ago. And my bigger than her I'm asking, am I less attractive, less powerful, less likeable, less worthy, then her comparing myself to her size and her size and her size? If I'm bigger than her, then I'm less than her. If I'm smaller than her, then I'm more than her and her size and her size and her size, my self worth going up and down with each comparison scoring points in a game against myself. There's always someone bigger, and always someone smaller. There's no winning this game. It's just Reducing women to their size. Aren't we bigger than that?
Katie Graham
My gosh, I love that. Those just so perfectly said, Oh my gosh, that comparison game, I'm more than I'm less than you're never going to be. You're never going to be in your self worth and your power. If you're stuck in that cycle. It's just like, and I've been there, I just know it so well. And it's yeah, it's a never ending game. I just love that. Thank you, Nina for sharing.
Nina Manolson
And it is never ending is never ending. And it's brutal. Just to be clear, it pulls us down. Right? It can feel like, Oh, it's just a loop, you know, and I was literally I was the queen of compare and despair. And I was like, exhausted by it all the time. It is a brutal way to treat yourself.
Katie Graham
So brutal. Yeah, thank you for noticing that. That's so true. It's yeah, because we can just like skin by and we can just see, like, we can just reflect on these words and right, but like digging in deep into it, it's like, it's so painful. Like, it's such a painful way to live. And I like I've know that. I've seen people look at my life before when I was in a really dark time and depression. And they were like, Oh, I didn't know anything was wrong. Like you have a perfect life. You look beautiful, like you were skinny. And you have the education. And it's like when you dig into that pain, like you can have immense internal pain with just body shame and just comparison and judgment. And I'm saying just but like comparison and judgment to a point where you might not even want to show up in the world anymore. So I've been there. And yeah, so thank you for noting, I think that's really important.
Nina Manolson
What you're saying that not showing up, we go invisible. We go small, right? So a client of mine actually was just talking to her this morning. And her life is a bit intense right now. There's just a lot of very challenging people and people who are being aggressive in her life towards her. And she said, I just can feel the desire to want to control what I eat, and to go on a diet. And I said absolutely right. If these this, these factors are making you feel out of control. So of course, what did we do? Let me control myself. I said, But underneath that is let me get myself small and make myself invisible. Right, because someone's attacking. Right? Let me go invisible. And then when I said that she was like, that's not me at all. And I was like, No, it's not, is it? She was like, No, I'm not somebody who goes invisible. And she was like, That's old stuff. Right? So to be able to see, when we start to get get diminished when we start to lose our power. When we feel disempowered. We're trying to make ourselves small, literally, the culture goes here, here's 5 million diet books to help you do that. And to go, Ah, no, no, I am not being small. We need women's voices, we need to be big, right? And we need to not be spending our time sucked into the diet world. Because it makes us small in the wrong way.
Katie Graham
I love how the body piece coaching incorporates all of that relationship and the feelings and really goes in deeper and what you're talking about examples with your clients. It's like, it's specific to each of our lives in a unique way. But obviously, there's always like common threads. But I just think it's so important to have a support system to have a coach. You know, I know like people, well, let's see, I can relate to myself in the way that it's like, I'm like, very motivated. I've been very type A in the past like I've, you know, I'm just like if I say I'm going to do something like I'm going to do it, I went to engineering school like it was like a thing like, you know, I'm like head down, I'll get it done. But I really saw a huge difference and things that I was working towards their desires to have a coach like to have somebody there talking it through. And when I went to an attrition inist I ended up calling her my nutrition therapist because by the end of like I first went through the macros and the micros and counting calories, and then I involved into intuitive eating and then really I would show up to our office and we would just be talking about feelings and I like what I was going Going through that week and what showed up and it's, so I think like Nina, you with the body piece, it's like, it's already there, like you have the like person there to talk through these things. And it really like what it really does boil down to is it is really a relationship. And it really is centered around your feelings and your self worth. And we know this like at a soul level, like the soul thrills at the truth of what we know. And so it's like, we know this, the ego doesn't know this, the ego. The ego will tell you, you know, you're Katie, you're good enough, you got this, you just buy that book, you just read that book, you outline a few things like you're good. But we all know when we buy, like I have a million books, like diet books, and I bought the intuitive eating book prior to going to the nutrition appointment. And like what did it do, I read through it, it sat on my shelf. So I do think that there's certain things that we just need to separate from the ego, keeping us in the comfortable telling us we can do it by ourselves. And really like putting in, you know, you're showing up for yourself, like you're putting in a dedication and you're saying you know what things need to change, and I'm gonna invest my time, I'm gonna invest my money like that money is energy. So if the money you put into it, that's just energy. So that's just showing up, like, Hey, I'm investing in myself here to really change. So I want to make that note, because I just think Nina, like what you're doing is so valuable. And if one listener here is like getting this shift, I think that they could really step into their light. And it me for me, like it transformed my whole world. Like, there's no way I would have done a podcast and like, quit my day job and went into my yoga teacher training. And, like, I just, I think that like, I would just really want to tell the listeners that they're 100% worthy to change if they want to change, and, and they deserve it. And they deserve to show up for themselves. And you know, you can really, like I remember, sorry, I'm just like interjecting one more thing. But I remember when I signed up for yoga teacher training, I felt like I needed to ask permission from my spouse, and I was a total people pleaser. And so I was like, Oh my gosh, I don't know, like, like, I should be doing this. But like, 100%, I should be doing that. Like, I should have been quitting my job a few years before that. But you know, if you're that kind of person, like it's okay to feel like, you know, you maybe need to ask your spouse or talk about it. But really, it's like you, like you are showing up for you and the steps that you take forward. Like, then you know, you don't need to be asking permission anymore. Like you just show up for yourself in the way that you're meant to, you're in that empowered place. And in your relationships, and your people grow with your growth. Like it's really powerful. So, um, yeah, Nina, thank you for showing up in the world and coaching and and we'll kind of get into like, what is the best way that if somebody is listening, and they're like, oh, that's, you know, that sounds really empowering. How can they contact you? Yeah,
Nina Manolson
so one thing before I get into that, that I want to just again, yellow highlighter that you said, is we can get feel so isolated in our body hate, and we can feel like we're the only ones. And we should just fix it ourselves. This is not a fix it yourself kind of thing. This shame didn't grow inside of you all by itself. It grew because you grew up in a culture that infused you like a virus with this feeling like your body is not okay, and how you eat is completely out of control. Right? It's and somebody else should you should abdicate control of your food to somebody else. So, first to understand this is not a solo sport, it really helps. And one of the things. So my personal journey, this is going back to the very beginning of our conversation, my personal journey, I ended up actually doing bodywork and working with women and their bodies, which is how I learned so much about what the emotions were are that we hold the stories that we hold in our body that led me to become a therapist, then into nutrition, then into psychology of eating and Body Trust in developing this body peace work. Right. So this journey has also shown me that women heal well in community. So yes, I work with clients individually, but I also do groups. I have body pee seekers and body peacekeepers. And working in groups. It's like the shaman just dissipates and the healing comes on, like fish like oh my gosh, this is possible. They're having a different relationship with their body and they're having a kind of conversation and it's not as Nina was saying it, they are, they're ahead of me on this path, I want to practice body peace, I can do it. So my invitation is to get support. And if you want to reach out to me, my website, go to body peace with Nina, you will find they're a really powerful tool to start the conversation. We've talked a lot, Katie, you and I about this relationship we have with our body. And there's a tool, it's called practicing body peace journal on the website, it's got 20 questions that are real relationship questions like if you were entering into a relationship with somebody else, a partner, like what would you want to know? Right? What's your body history? So there are questions there. And they are based on five of my body poems. So you'll see five poems there and questions pulled out of there so that you can be in the exploration yourself. So I highly encourage you to start there. If you want to talk to me, let me know, email me all my contact information is that body peace with Nina or Nina mandelson.com. And also, I'm on Instagram and Facebook. So find me I love to connect and support.
Katie Graham
Perfect, perfect. And I'll put all of your contact information in the show notes as well. And then Nina, I also love to ask the guests at the end of the show what their own personal wellness, their daily wellness practice is just to give us all a little inspiration.
Nina Manolson
Yes. So I wake up in the morning, and I wish I I still wish I was the kind of person who meditate and do but I start working, I pretty much have breakfast, and I start working. And but then I stop for lunch. There are days where I go, who's in charge of this calendar, don't they know that I'm a human who needs food. And it was of course me who made the calendar. But most of the time I stopped, I make myself a real lunch I eat, I try to get outside a little bit even for a few breaths of fresh air, I've started doing a new kind of movement called Flow roping. And it's really fun. It's like it looks like a skipping rope. But you don't skip you just move it through the air almost like martial arts Flow Arts. So I'll do like five minutes of that outside, come back work. And then my favorite thing to do, especially in these months, is I hop in the car and I drive to Walden Pond, which is half an hour from my house and I swim the pond. That is my favorite thing. That is my moment of joy and peace. And then I come home, I make dinner, I'm with my family, we usually eat together. I always call my mom every day and connect there. So it's really my places of nourishment, our movement, sitting to eat, not standing to eat, not eating in the car, sitting to eat and really enjoying and a relationships, really connecting to people that I love. And that is what nourishes me. And if I can't get to the pond, I'm gonna get in water. I'll go to float tank, I'll take a bath. But I need to be in water. I know that that's an element that makes me come out of whatever the stresses of the day and has me land. It could just be as simple as like drinking water all day. But usually I need a little extra hit of that water.
Katie Graham
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Beautiful. Thank you for sharing. Awesome, well, Nina, it's just like such a pleasure to talk with you. And I just love like our how our conversation flowed and just went into that really empowering place. So I just feel like so uplifted by you. So thank you so much for being here.
Nina Manolson
Katie, my absolute pleasure. Thank you.
