39. Wild Sage Mountain Guides / Devin Wilkinson
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Devin Wilkinson, outdoor educator, guide and co-owner of Wild Sage Mountain Guides. Devin, Marla and Kate created Wild Sage to give women an opportunity to experience the wilderness in a safe, supportive and empowering setting. Today's episode Devin talks about the passion behind her guiding career and the impact the outdoors have had on her own well-being. We dive into topics on: wellness practices, how to live in your body, creating space for women in the outdoors, connecting to your purpose, clarity on what's truly important, and self-awareness. I can't wait for you to listen!
Topics:
Finding Purpose & Passion in the Outdoors
Guiding Women: opportunity, diversity, support
How to really "live" in your body
High Stress Environments (First Responder, Ski Patrol, Guiding Mountaineering): How to bring in body awareness & make decisions from a grounded space.
Daily Wellness Practices: Yoga, Meditation, Making Breakfast, Daily Mantras, Taking the Ego Out of It, Calm & Quite the Mind, Body Awareness.
KATIE KAY:
Hi, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of body breaking free podcast. So today's episode, we have Devin Wilkinson on the episode. I'm so excited. However first before we dive in, please rate and review the podcast. That is a great way that you can support us here bump up that algorithm and then let us know a comment about this episode. What did you love? What was something that really resonated with you? And then also another way is sharing it with a friend. I think like that's the best way that we can build a community is just if something you know resonated with you and you thought maybe a friend would like to hear it or family member, just passing it along, sending that uplifting energy to somebody that you love. That's, you know, I can't think of a better way to support this podcast. Okay, so let's get into today's episode, Devon Wilkinson, she is part owner of wild sage mountain guides. So her and Kate and Marla they all met ski patrol lane and Park City and they started this amazing guiding company. Wild sage is a women and operated small business. Their passion is giving women an opportunity to experience the wilderness in a safe, supportive and empowering setting. And getting into the episode you'll hear at all different kinds of levels. They support people getting outside and we talk about all the benefits and then also get into Devon's Own Story her own struggles, and finding her purpose and passion guiding being out in nature. It's really an uplifting episode. I think there's a ton of awesome insights into finding authenticity and your own wellness. And Devin gives us some amazing tools. So yeah, get ready for an awesome episode. Sit back, grab your coffee and take a listen. Devin, thank you so much for being here on body breaking free podcast.
Devin Wilkinson
I'm so excited. Katie.
Katie Kay
This is awesome. So, Devin, I already gave a little bit of background intro before we started recording, so people know that you have this amazing guiding company, wild sage mountain guides. So before we get into that, can you just give us a little background, your story and your background and outdoor education? And then what kind of led you up into this point of creating this awesome business?
Devin Wilkinson
Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, I kind of went to college. I grew up in Steamboat Springs, Colorado, which is obviously surrounded by nature, I had plenty of opportunities to be outside hiking, I got to go skiing a lot. I didn't go backpacking for my first time. So I was actually a sophomore in high school, and then started to go a little more traditional, you know, I went into college to play volleyball, just division three, I thought I'd be pre med. And then as my journey started to shift, I got more involved with outdoors in general. And so I led trips for my college in down in Durango. I finished up my education at Fort Lewis. And I fell in love immediately. And I fell in love with being able to one be outside, always I love anything that is outside, but also just to be able to share some of these experiences with other people. And so that led to outdoor edited out thread in the summers for four, maybe five years and then transitioned into working with adults. I always say there's a lot of great benefits of working with kids. I have kids who, you know, I would lead on these 30 day trips, and we would go backpacking and rock climbing and mountaineering. It was kind of like not a full Knowles or Outward Bound type of thing, but more than a summer camp. And they even to this day, some of those kids will call me and they'll be like Devin, I'm thinking about applying to medical school. But I also want to do the outdoors. I'm like, Yes, this is so cool. I've had an impact on someone's life. And then I kind of transitioned into adults. And you know, some of the outdoor education is really fulfilling, but it's sometimes not sustainable economically. as I as I was going through that, and then I worked I did like day trips with adults. I've been a road biking guide. And then now most recently before wild siege. I was a mountaineering guide up in the Pacific Northwest, so I was taking people up Renea and in the North Cascades and then Denali last summer. So it's kind of been like a long process of of many, many different experiences. And I think to to answer the question about like How then did I get into wild sage? It was there was kind of a twofold piece to it. One I have had the opportunity to To work with women in the past, and wild sage is a women's specific group owned by myself, Marla and Kate. So it's like three women who focus on getting women into the outdoors. And the first time I took my mom, she was in her 50s. She'd never been backpacking before. We like hiked three miles. And it was the biggest accomplishment on that day with that, you know, 40 pound pack on her back and setting up camp and having dinner. And I remember her telling me that it was, it was such a profound experience for her because the outdoors, these these type of outdoors, she hikes all the time, but doing something new such as backpacking felt wildly intimidating, especially she's like my age, I kind of feel like the door has closed for me. And it was really, it was hard to hear that because I was like, No, the outdoors should be accessible for anyone at any time. At any age, there isn't a door closed, you know? And so how do I, how do I facilitate a platform that lets these people know that they are just as deserving of these experiences that have meant so much to me? And how do I create less barriers in that environment. And then the other piece was, I've worked for so many different people throughout my life, and I've had good bosses, I've had bad bosses. But I think having autonomy and ownership of my own thing, this being wild sage, and then being able to control the direction that it grows, you know, and being able to control what does five years and 10 years look like? Are we able to provide scholarships? Do we, you know, only utilize local and right now we work with Sierra who was on the podcast recently, trying to do like local produce that we bring in or working with Auntie M's who's does baked goods locally and trying to support other businesses. It's, it's powerful for me to be able to have such control over that and not just be like, whatever you say, boss.
Katie Kay
Yeah, oh, my gosh, is so amazing. And it sounds like you've just been connected to the mountains and out in nature and in physical activity. Is it just like, do you feel like you've just always been in that space? And just like, that's kind of part of who you are? And your sense of self?
Devin Wilkinson
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, and I think, you know, it took me a while to recognize how important the outdoors was, to me, I think you take for granted when you grow up in an outdoorsy environment, and you grew up surrounded by beautiful mountains, and you grew up with people who, you know, prioritize being out in those spaces, that it's easy to take for granted how accessible that all was. And I remember going into college and kind of having this retrospective experience of wow, I have a lot of really cool childhood memories and opportunities that were directly correlated to my family owned a little cabin, north of steamboat and we would go there every summer, I didn't go to a summer camp. So my brother and sister and I would be out in the woods, building forts and you know, making mud pies and searching for crystals with my mom. And I think that that has always been a core part of who I am. But yeah, trying to figure out how I fit in that space has been a much longer journey, I think and how how to have made this my career now was a much more circuitous journey. It wasn't very direct.
Katie Kay
Totally, yeah, yeah, I can relate to always having access to the outdoors and just being part of who I am. And, and not really realizing it, like you don't really realize how much of a privilege that is and how connected you are to just your love of nature. And just like all the fun activities that you can experience. And yeah, and I can just totally relate to the heart of not fully recognizing that is part of who you are, and like your identity and your passion and purpose in life. And so I'm just curious, like your journey, maybe even starting in college, because I think that's a really profound time. And when we start to ask those bigger questions of ourselves, and what's truly important and and I think society too, puts on a lot of pressure of what is successful, quote, unquote, right? And what is truly important to your own sense of self because that's like so different for everybody. So we can't really put on this huge label of what is successful and what is not. So what like what was that journey for you and did it started college? Maybe it started later, but how did you kind of realize this is what the direction of your life was headed into?
Yeah, yeah, I think you know, I there was such a long stretch of time and I think it's it was you Maybe that preteen era Intel i entered into college where I maybe lost a little bit of that wonder in connection with the, with the natural environment and with those things that we were just talking about and I got very focused on I was very much of a perfectionist and I have to rein it in. And I I want to perform at the highest level I want to do well in everything that I do and that became such a driving force in my life through you know, academics and through sports that I started to eat it took me a while to realize that I wasn't living like in my own body and in my own experiences I was just living for the the whatever I could produce like what was the goal oriented end of things it's like how how well could I do what were my grades gonna look like how well could I perform in athletics you know, it was very externally motivated. And I remember having this moment in it was after my sophomore year of college actually had all these friends come visit me and steamboat and it was just kind of this overwhelming moment. We were talking we were all going to go live together. Back in I was I went to Colorado College for the start of my educational career. And then was going to go back to my junior year live with all these people. I was studying pre med at the time I was doing neuro psychology at Colorado College playing Division Three volleyball, and I had like a total almost panic and I got my car and I started driving and I went to the Tetons for the first time and I remember wanting it to be this like a pit funny of a moment, you know, and Tetons were amazing. And I spent time in Yellowstone by myself. And then I drove down to lander, Wyoming to the Knowles headquarters. And always joke that I wanted to show up and someone was gonna run out with their little goats and they be like Devin, here you are, we have you. And I got there and I am on showered, I'm in the clothes that I slept in. And it's closed. And I like call this dorm mom. And I'm like, Hey, I would love to talk to someone about what the Noles Sorry, what the nose thing looks like, and what it means to go on a nice trip, because I've heard a lot about it, but I don't really know. And she's like, I'm not, I don't really, maybe I can find someone. I just remember being like, life is not always a movie. But that moment was still just as pivotal for me. Because I came home and I was like, Mom, I'm not gonna go back to college this year, I need to figure something out. So it took the year off. I did. I lived in Hawaii for like four months with friends of mine who had grown up in Maui, and then went to Patagonia on an old strip and did their, like 30 or 90 day trip there and got home. And I was like, yeah, it's it's the outdoors that I need to have them as part of my life. But it was kind of a continuing dialogue of of realizing that when I would go outside and when I would do things, whether it was backpacking, or it was out the time, I hadn't even been rock climbing or anything like that. But the mountaineering ropes side of things came a little bit later, but you know, skiing, whatever those things were, that standing on top of a mountain, looking down and being in the wind and being in the cold, and being in that environment was very much so just for me, it wasn't like, are my parents going to be proud that I'm doing this? Are my friends gonna, you know, be excited, not excited, but are they going to like me more? If I do this thing? Am I going to be recognized for my intelligence? It's like, No, this is just about me in this moment. And I think that that, combined with the amount of growth and confidence that I experienced through the challenges of, of outdoor expeditions, or being in these outdoor environments was, it was kind of like, Yep, this is this is it, this is what I need to do moving forward. And I don't know what it will look like. And, you know, even throughout the years, when I moved here, and I started ski patrolling, I was like, this will be one year, and then I'm gonna go back to grad school, and I've been here for six
Katie Kay
years. That is so amazing. I just love that story. Because it's, there's this pivotal moment, and I just, I see that it's just so easy. And I think we all so easily get caught up in the external world and what we're, what we're doing and what kind of expectations we're putting on ourselves and judgments and, and all the things that we usually I think 90% of the time are really focusing on you know, the day the schedule, what do I need to get done. And then for you it was like this pivotal moment of really internalizing and really understanding your own internal condition. And I think that's where all the magic happens. And it's cool to hear your story because it was like this very sharp moment. And like for me, I feel like it's kind of more of this like blob, messiness. totally like, yeah, and I think that's like very common to is like, We're all just trying to figure it out like day to day like one step at a time. But just having the ability to reflect on that and say, you know, what's really important to me? What do I value? What makes me happy? Because we can all be successful if we follow those, those that path of what's gonna make me happy. And it's really amazing how that's guided you and creating this amazing business, the wild sage mountain guides. It's really amazing. Yeah, so I kind of I want to focus a little bit too on some of those, because it sounds like some of those mentalities of, like you you said, like the performance and goal and trying to produce and all of those words that kind of fall into that expectations and the outer, the outer judgments and resistance, all those things that that can show up. I'm curious, did that show up in your body? And how did you relate to your body in those times, it was a little bit harder to kind of see the clarity of your path.
Devin Wilkinson
Yeah. And, and I think that's interesting, because I, I remember also having this dialogue, you know, my, my mother's a nurse practitioner, and so she does Family Mental Health, and I studied psychology. And so mental health was always kind of a very open dialogue. It was not, it didn't have taboos that I know, other people have experienced when addressing mental health. So we had like free counseling in college, and I took advantage of that. And I remember having someone asked me, and I don't remember if it was my mother, or if it was one of these counselors, you know, like, where, where do you live in your body? Kind of that question that you're asking. And I was like, what does that mean? Aren't I in my body always, but it was a it was this realization that I kind of lived from from my chest up, I was all in my head. And not just to say, like, in my headspace, it was a huge disconnect with recognizing that, oh, I also live in my fingertips, and I live in my toes, and I live in my legs and, and like I am this body, you know, that is moving through space. And time, which is a is kind of a a weird disassociation that I didn't recognize was occurring. It's like, oh, yeah, obviously my toes on my toes, but not physically being connected to them. Or having that mind body connection, just even with, with what it feels like to have your feet on the ground. And so as a byproduct of that, I started doing yoga when I was in college, then I did yoga almost every pretty much every single day. And there was a really, really good friend of mine, that was a yoga instructor. And so we would sometimes lead trips together. And we do like a backcountry yoga trip. And I would be in charge of the backcountry aspect. And then she go teach yoga on the red rocks down in the swell or something like that. And I remember she introduced me to like yoga nidra, and just different types of yoga and really focusing on like, Oh, what is your what is your pinky toe feel? Like what is your foot feel? Like? What is your ankle connected to your foot feel like and it was this first moment where I distinctly remember putting my feet on the floor in one of our classes and just being like, I feel all my toes on the floor. And it's like, yeah, that's, that's normal.
Katie Kay
That's totally Oh, yeah, like being in the body. That is so interesting that you said that I was just talking to my friend Aaron the other day and, and we've both experienced that in therapy of just like being like, well, in that moment, where were you in your body? And both of us are like, yeah, that's just like a, it's an interesting question that a therapist would ask, but it's so true, because most of the time when we're caught up in anxiety, or the stress of the day or overwhelm, are really not in our body, like we don't really feel that sensation. And so that practice of, of like when I am in that anxiety, and when the emotional brain is taking over, and I might be in a you know, trauma state, it's like, my body is always there as an anchor that I can come back home to and really feel into like, Okay, where do I feel this sensation? So like the location and then does it have a temperature? Does it have a shape? Does it have a color, like all of those things are like fun? Maybe fun is not a word because in the moment you're not like those time but but like a great tool to use to just like come into the body and and what I have found is that has created a lot more freedom and space in my life is like, a lot of the time we don't have control of the external circumstances, especially if our emotional brain takes over and we're in an anxiety You're overwhelmed state, but we do have control of the present moment and just being grounded. And, and that is like, it's, it's freeing in that way that it gives you a little bit more space from the external emotion into like, oh, like, I feel pretty crappy. And like, this is what it feels in my body, but at least like I'm being fully alive in this moment, and I'm, you know, I'm like really diving into the miracle of like, I'm alive, you know, like, I'm taking this breath and, and being able to ground myself in that moment, it does create a lot of space and freedom. So I love how you talked about that. Especially in like, in your world where you did feel like a lot of those pressures and the performance and the volleyball being an athlete. Like I can take a lot of a lot of struggle and on our bodies and mentally too, and, and how you're talking about you were like living in your head? Totally, I think most of us.
Devin Wilkinson
Yeah, and I think too, like you're talking about that grounding stuff. And I think a lot about that just day to day cuz going into where I feel it in my body helps re anchor me as you said in that moment for presence, but also in high stress situations, ski patrolling has high stress moments, guiding glaciers has high stress moments and being able to, you know, I call it like taking a deep breath, but part of that taking a deep breath is also re grounding and saying like, Okay, where am I feeling of feeling this in my core? Good, okay, means I'm alive, it means I'm analyzing the situation. And and I get really a little more robotic when I have to decision making in like stressful situations. But it's also easy to, to not just be like in that, like you said emotional brain and kind of up here and in the chaos and frozen by that and going into that fight or flight type of of reaction to the situation. It's like, okay, now, what are the tools that I have to move forward? What are the tools that my body knows that it knows it without my brain having to tell it to do those things like going going through the procedures of assessing a scene before you approach it? It's like, my body knows that. So trusting my body by Re grounding into it. Yeah,
Katie Kay
yeah. And so is that something that you use as teaching your clients when you're going on these guiding expectations? Are you acting more as kind of that centered, grounded person that's leading the charge? And so like, I guess my question would be, what does that look like for people that you're guiding? And what kind of things are you teaching them along the way, as you're on one of these expeditions?
Devin Wilkinson
Yeah. And I think it it changes per the interests of the individual. Because sometimes, especially in the mountaineering world, like working with children, there was a lot of opportunities to have different types of conversations. And sometimes you can't, you know, you've got a 13 year old and you're not going to dive as deep as even we're having in the dialog, but you can have like, Hey, what are you experiencing right now? Where is this, especially when they experience anxiety or panic for new situations, it's, it's using these tools to help them reground in their environment, and know that they're safe in this moment. But with uh, with adults, I think there's a wide range of what people are seeking from a guided experience in mountaineering, specifically, and probably all disciplines, but mountaineering, there's a lot of folks who just want you to take care of the technical stuff, and you to make the scary decisions. But that being said, there were a couple of trips that I got to run that we call our seminar trips, so they're a little bit longer and that people come on them to learn more technical skills like crevasse rescue, how to set up camp in a winter environment and live in that environment. You know, basics of rope travel and glacial terrain and terrain selection and map reading, and just being more engaged with with that, and so you can have these dialogues about what do I do in emergency situations? How do I control my body when it wants to panic in that space, and those have been, especially like this last year, I got to do an all women's seminar on the paradise glacier, which is a route up or near. And it was a really, it was incredible experience. It's it leads again, back to wild sage and why I like to work with women because I do think I've worked with mixed gender groups. I've worked with all male groups. Well, I'm I'm the only female in that group. And then I've worked with all women's groups and I just find that women can excel in any environment they choose to but there's something that feels really supportive about being in an all female group learning something new that is historically men have been driving that the mountaineering world for for so long, that it it can be intimidating and so to like have women teaching women the same skill sets at the same level is Feels really empowering. But yeah, with those groups, I think sometimes we do get to have more of these dialogues about like, Oh, hey, this is a scary situation. This is what's going on in my brain and body right now. And this is how we're going to move forward and being that calm source, but also helping interject because we, we also all have different levels of fear and risk too. So something that I don't think is scary, might be terrifying for someone who's brand new to this experience. And so, being able to communicate at that level, and not belittle that fear, because it's valid, and it's real, and that person is feeling it in this place. Just because I'm not doesn't mean that there's is not is not worth hat feeling and having a conversation about
Katie Kay
totally, I love how you're talking about that, you're inviting all different types of people, and all different kinds of skill levels, I think that is really valuable, because maybe somebody feels more like a beginner, but having that opportunity, like being able to give that to them, like what you were talking about with your mom is like, we all have the access to the outdoors. And that's the beauty of it. And, and just like giving yourself permission at whatever level you're at, to really experience it. I know, for me, it's like, yes, like, I've had the privilege of being out in nature growing up in Idaho and, and doing the backpacking and skiing like I, I just naturally am already in tune with that. But like I do know, like yesterday, just like I got home from doing the interview with CRN like, and then I had worked for a few extra hours. And then I was just like feeling really bogged down. And my mental space was just like exhausted and, and just like going on a walk out on the street. And just like the simplicity of just like walking outside for 15 minutes, like the calmness of nature. And actually, Melanie Webb was on the podcast, and she she also does adventurer guiding and and she talked about kind of like the science behind why we feel so calm and peaceful and so connected when we're out in nature. And, and now when I have that knowledge, like I know what I'm soaking into my body, and it's like, it's, it's magical. And so I think like, sometimes we prevent ourselves from doing like things like going on a guided trip with you, Devin, if we are just like nervous, if it's out of our comfort zone, if, you know, our nervous system is like not ready for that, you know, it's like, like, just like having you and being so open and just like meeting them exactly where they are at. It's like, it's such a huge opportunity. I just think it's like beautiful what you're putting out into the world. And so just like really grateful that you are giving the availability to diversity as well. Because yeah, historically, like we've just lacked in that area. And like, and it's just like, it's time that like, we need to like open up the space and opportunity. And it's just, it's really amazing that that you and Kate and Marla are offering this kind of opportunity to people.
Devin Wilkinson
Yeah, and I think like you said, it's, it's, we have lots of goals for what the future of this can look like. And right now we're just trying to continue with our flagship trips, which is two nights and three days. But I think being able to be in this environment and focus on facilitating an experience, you know, we make all the food, but we'll teach you how to set up the tents. And we can get as advanced as doing, you know, orienteering looking at maps, how do I find myself in, in the outdoors? Doing things like how do we cook in this environment? How do we purify water? What's our safety plan, and having that option for education for folks with the hope that you know, and this is a horrible business model, with the hopes that you learn something and then you can go do it on your own, rather than, you know, gatekeeping the experience for people and being like, We are the knowledge and the power, and we're the only ones that get to do this, and you always have to do it with us. It's like, we want to be able to help facilitate your learning. So that you go with us on this trip. Maybe we go on another trip that's more advanced and you learn more skills, and then eventually you're the one organizing your group of gals to go backpacking in your home area, you know, and it's like, that should be the confidence that you experience with us in a guided setting should be able to be carried through to your own desires and adventures. Yeah, no, I
Katie Kay
think that is such a beautiful business model. I think that if you are a business owner and you open up the space for that much abundance and really trying to uplift your clients and really help support them and, and moving forward so that they can do it on a daily basis. And they can feel comfortable and they can go on bigger trips, it's like, it's so empowering. And the more and more that, like you give people that space, like they're gonna talk to other people and other people and like, before you guys know it, you're gonna be like, overwhelmed with people that want to work with you. And the cool part is, is that you're experienced enough that you're able to offer up all of these different levels of mountaineering, and then the more expert kind of levels as well. So it's like, it's really cool. And I think your business model is just like, so inspiring. And just like opening up this space for that is really empowering. And I want to go back a little bit to kind of like this purpose, point. And like, kind of, like people that might be in that stage in life where they're just feeling a little unsure about the next step and, and what they want to do with their life. And we talked a little bit about how for you, it was like, this pivotal moment. And I think that like nature, from what I've experienced, is like, it actually offers up a really amazing space for us to internalize. And for us to actually find a lot of answers. I find that when I'm out in nature, like the clearest moments for me, like, I'm just, it's like, it's like, it's teaching me like all of these beautiful lessons. And so he's like, I guess I just kind of want to focus on that point of like, it being an outlet, not only for physical activity, but also kind of this experience. And it also directly reflects to your own experience of like, being in a place of being unsure and maybe insecure and kind of lost in your sense of self and then finding purpose. And for you, it was exactly nature. But I think for a lot of people like it can give that clarity and space of like, oh, like that's what's truly important to me. Because we get out of the busy we get out of like all the distractions.
Devin Wilkinson
Yep. Yeah. And I think that's, yeah, it's a great place, I find nature to be a great place to not only connect with the purpose of being out in nature, but like you said, creating space so that you have more, you have more time to actually think about what matters to you, or, or what you need, and those moments that aren't being in nature. But those moments back in, you know, the, the regular environment. And I had a friend once say, I remember we went on a trip together and and we kept saying people kept saying like, Oh, well, when we go back to the real world, and he was like, hold on. This is also the real world. But like being out and backpacking isn't fantasyland. It's just part of the experience that you get to have being in the quote unquote, real world. And I think that that purpose piece to just having folks here are having these, these ladies be able to be out there and and experience a less rushed environment, less frantic environment. Like, I remember after I got off my Knowles trip, coming into the airport, you know, landing in the LA Airport, or whatever, and being wildly overwhelmed by lights and sounds, because for 90 days, it had been this group of 1618 of us. And all you really had to think about was okay, where are we going to sleep tonight? And, you know, what are we going to have for dinner? And what are what's our route plan, and it was very simple, and it directly related to the moment like what is this moment or the next six hours or maybe 12 hours of my experience instead of being like, okay, so four weeks from now, I've got this. And then, you know, in that same month, I also have to get this thing done. But then I have to go to the bank, and I have to go, you know, and so I think it reduces things back to a basic place. And when you go back to basics, it's can be easier to then have time and space to think about, again, what what really matters. And that for me was standing on a mountain and being like, Ah, this feels really special and powerful. And in this space, I feel the most beautiful and confident and capable that I have ever felt. And I think part of that is what you're saying where I get to slow down and I actually get to think about those things and I get to recognize those things instead of being so busy that I'm I'm so distracted. I can't come back and have those moments of self reflection.
Katie Kay
Yeah, and I love that word simplicity is just, I feel that too. I was I went on a month long camping trip and like before I went on like camping trip, I was like, oh my god, like, I'm like, This is what I got to do for the podcast, like, I'm so stoked, and I'm teaching yoga. And this is like, this is what I'm gonna do. And then it's like, the simplicity of being on a camper and like, like, like, you know, this simple life. Like, it's, it gives you availability of just to reframe your perspective on what is truly important. And it's not that the podcasts and teaching yoga and like what I had planned wasn't truly important to me. But it did kind of make me or I guess, let me as an opportunity to kind of just step back, and just, like, redefine what successful was for me. And, and like, it just allowed me to ask some of the bigger questions. And I didn't even have to, like, try or control or try to fix anything. It was like, these things came to me because I think it was questions that were like, deep down in my soul that I really needed to, to face and answer and, and it's just kind of things like, you know, like with the podcast and, and like it being successful, like a lot of it has to do with like, the numbers and the number of listeners. And so I was like, kind of focused on that. But then it's like, I can step back and and be like, like what would make me really happy. And, you know, like 10 People like listening and maybe even like 10 people I could just like connect with and do these, like fun wellness practices with and, and I guess it's like, what? Well, that sounds like pretty nice, you know, that sounds like it would make me really happy. And like, and I get that there's the reality, like you got to like make money, I got to figure out how to monetize and, but I think that actually acts more of a fear than then allowing me to really see like, well, if this podcast grew in this direction, then that would make me much happier. And I can figure out like all the details like we can figure it out, like the money and stuff. But yeah, I guess like I think that that's such a beautiful opportunity. And I think just like being out in the outdoors and separating ourselves from the craziness of life, it's just like, just like kind of a sigh of relief, honestly. And so and I think we all I mean, a big thing about the podcast is I just like want to open up a space to like, see new perspectives and and I just think like there's nothing better than like reframing your perspective. And just like getting away. And if you have that availability, and like you were talking about doesn't have to be some like big extreme. You know, and like I was saying, like going on a walk. And it's like, it just the value of it is I think it's just like important to reiterate over and over again. So thank you for letting me like hype on that on that purpose part behind it, because I just think it's it's so valuable. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah. And so I want to ask you, Devin, besides like getting out in nature and doing your xpect expeditions, whatever, like wellness practices do you have in your daily life that you could share with us for inspiration.
Devin Wilkinson
So like I said, my mom, nurse practitioner does Family Mental Health, and she has focused, focused on kind of a very diverse treatment plan or way that she works with people. And it has involved everything from acupuncture to vitamin therapies to mindfulness based practices. And so her and I have lots of dialogues about that. And in college, I told you before I started doing yoga every day, and I started meditating every day. And that always comes and goes in waves. And I think for a while there was a when I would stop doing it I would be upset with myself but for the wrong reasons not because I was no longer getting the benefits of taking time and space for myself. But because I was like, No, I'm not sticking to the routine that I promised myself I would stick to and so you know this constant learning how to let go of the ego with everything and being like that's not what it's about. It's not about it's this isn't a performance based task seven yoga is for you do it for you. And so I think as that has evolved now, you know, it's it's I still stretch every single morning, but it's not a formal stretch, and sometimes it's five minutes and sometimes it's longer depending on what my morning looks like. And I tried to do each morning, get up and before getting out of bed, like kind of have some sort of mantra for the day and it's not anything specific. Not something that I've planned. It's kind of like what do I need today? Okay, today I'm going to find joy, joy will come to me easily and effortlessly. And I just say it a couple times to myself as I move into like being awake and going through my morning routine. And then I think recently while this is maybe not, you know in the yoga mindfulness based category, I've started making breakfast for myself every morning, which in six years of being here, I used to just get up and go to work and be like, banana, that's enough. Like, oh, wait, when I make like a hot meal for myself each morning, I wake up 10 minutes earlier to do this. And I am so much better throughout my day. And that's just for me personally, you know, it's not like you have to have a hot breakfast, but it was like the act of getting up and you know, not rushing to just get my car to go to work, like taking time in the morning. It's that that routine of making breakfast as well that has created space for me where I'm like, Oh, I feel happier going to work. I feel full until lunchtime. Now I'm not like, why am I so angry? Is it because I only ate a banana? You're like, Yep, yeah. And I. And then I think the other piece, I'm really fortunate to have a career right now that allows me to constantly move my body. And so whether that's being in ski patrol and skiing, and you know, hiking in that environment, or being in the guiding world, and you know, literally moving all the time, and so trying to create movement, but now being able again to go back and take out that ego and say on my day off, I don't need to go summit all of these peaks and like have these great accomplishments to be like prove that I was on top of a mountain and I'm a badass. Like, it's okay. Like, even this afternoon after we're done with all of this, I'm going to go take my dog for a walk to Smith, Morehouse. It's like that's, that's okay. That's still it is still valuable. And it's still a valid form. Not that you even have to have a valid form, but it's it. There is no need to prove, like you're and I think this is where sometimes in the outdoors, we get competitive, just like with school of being like, well, what, how many mountains have you climbed? And what do you do in your free time? Are you always active? Are you crazy, like me? And it's like, no, you can slow down. And that can look like a walk after work. It can also look like just being quiet and not having to do something like connecting to my body and saying today, do I need that movement? Or am I just doing it? Because it's part of that like, like I was doing the yoga practice and stopping it and then being like, what have you done? It's like failing a New Year's resolutions like, Hey, you're the only one that made you do that. There's no like no one else is is forcing you to do it. And if it becomes my kind of with you talking about this podcast, like if you love the podcast, but if you let the podcasts and all those things become so goal driven that they take away the joy. It's like then what? What, let's go back to ground zero, where we started, why did I start yoga? Why did I start the podcast? Why did I start going outside? Like being able to step back and say, what is the actual wellness piece of these practices that I do. And I think routine is an amazing thing, because I think it helps. It helps us to come back to something day to day. So even when days are hard, like getting up and stretching in the morning being like this routine is a reminder that I need to take time for my body, but not letting the routine become so overwhelming that I'm mad at myself when I don't do it.
Katie Kay
Right. Oh, gosh, like all of that is so pure gold. Like I loved how you talked about all those things. And I think you and I share similar deeper wounds and fears that I think I mean, a lot of us carry have have, like, we're worrying about what other people are thinking, like we need to perform at this some sort of high level because we want other people to perceive us a certain way or, or like feeling like we always have to work really hard. Like we need to be the best we need to like that perfectionist mentality we already talked about. Yeah. And it's, it's cool, because you have such self awareness of those that you are able to separate from them and just kind of pause in a moment and be like, Well, yeah, like this, you know, mile hike, or like, walking down the street for 15 minutes like this is still really valuable. And I don't need to attach on to those fears anymore, because I'm able to see them. And I just I think in wellness overall, if we're willing to just be able to see those deeper fears, then we just are able to have much more control and power so that we don't have to feel attached on to them. And so just hearing you talk about your wellness, it's like you have so much freedom and space because you're able to go with the flow of how you're feeling in that present moment. And you're able to see those thoughts that creep in that are like, Oh, you need to like go on this peak and like you need to prove yourself, you know, so yeah, I just like I want to make that point because I think that's very valid. Then just having an overall wellness. Yeah, I think Devin that was just like one more thing I wrote down. The point about the meditation, I think that was, that was cool how you're talking about, like, at some point, like there's like we can so easily get in, like, even with meditation, it's like, there's a right way to do it, or there's a wrong way to do it. And it's just like, I think we even just will need to expect that if we're trying something new, like, we'll probably get caught up in that because we're learning something new. So we kind of need to look at like, what's right and what's wrong. And, and then I think it's like, important at some point to, to be able to see, okay, like, is this 20 minutes a day really authentically how I want to use this tool in my life? Or is there a way that what you said, like, in a way that it brings me more joy? And I and I think like sometimes we miss that second step? Because there is kind of this, like black and white, like, right or wrong to each new thing that we follow, which is not like it's not saying like, it's our fault or anything, but yeah, being able to kind of like step back and be like, Oh, is this like, do I want to go to yoga every single morning? Is that the structure that I want? Or do I need a little bit more freedom and, and it's just like, it's unique to everybody. So it's like, That can't give you the right. Like, I can't tell you what is what is going to serve you in the right way. And, and sorry, one other thing I wanted to point out is how you're talking about the structure and, and having a routine. I was in a yoga class the other day, and the teacher was talking about, like structures, so valid in a way that human beings like we just like structure. But we in that structure, we can have a lot of freedom. So if somebody was telling you like, okay, just like do whatever you want, like, you have the freedom like Devin like right now, like you have the freedom to just say whatever you want to say. And you'd be like, I have no idea what to say. But if you have some sort of structure and be like, hey, like, what joy to you, then you'll have the freedom to really explain joy in a way that is authentic to you. So I think like the point that you made about having a routine, I also feel like it's very valid and valued for me to have some sort of structure as well. But also, like, leave this space and just have that freedom for yourself and take some of the pressure off. Okay, I there's like I thought like, what all that you said was pure gold. And so I just like wanted to tap on all of those things. So Devin, are there any last words, talking about like structure? And let me give you a ton of free day. Last words and in or just like, tell us where to find you. And I'll put all of your contact info information and wild sage mountain guides information on the show notes. So yeah,
Devin Wilkinson
yeah, I think kind of what we've touched on throughout all of this, and something that from the wild sage perspective, and then from my own personal perspective, I want to emphasize is that we get the question a lot like, do you guys take beginners? And I was surprised that we were getting that question at all, because I was like, oh, from my perspective, we're very much so look, we we want everyone but I think that there is again, that intimidation that when you say everyone someone says, oh, but they want someone who hikes all the time and has at least camped somewhere and maybe knows how to use like a Coleman grill or something. And it's like, no, you can have none of that. And we still want to take you and so yeah, just that our emphasis with wild sages that we want to create a space for everyone through the platform of women specifically for us to experience this environment. And so yeah, and you can find us we are on Instagram at Wild sage mountain guides and that's the same for our Facebook. Think we have a Twitter but we're not very good at it. Turns out turns out when you love the outdoors, sometimes you're not very good at social media. And then also we have a website it's wild sage mountain guides.com comes up when you Google us so
Katie Kay
awesome. Awesome. Thank you Devin. I think that was a perfect way to end our episode together. And yeah, I think like I just feel like the intention of like so much love and so much self worth and confidence and it was just like thank you for bringing that into the into the episode today and being here and listeners. Thank you. I know your time is precious. So thank you for showing up and listening and I will see you all next week.
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